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An unnamed one will beat all to market!

Now all the writers and advertising men are lining up to present the information that is spoon fed!

Gonna be fun!

Notice Trey Kistler started experimenting with them 8 years ago.

Lance -
Look up the youtube video where Scott Martin talks about testing the ZBone Rod 3 years ago... it's got micros and is on an NFC blank (says it real big on the video)... and then he says Trey Kistler started with micros 2 years ago... so which is it? Hmmm...

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I have just re-paired a Kestler rod reel seat that was loose ? A KCBS7. The glue was good on the inside of the seat, good on the finish on the blank, BUT the finish was not good to the blank. I also found rubber O rings inserted into the front of the seat ??? You tell me , cause I don't know

And people pay how much for these rods ?????

Bill - willierods.com

A calender ??

Bill - willierods.com

WHATEVER

That was a Felt ring and a rubber o ring.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2009 03:30PM by bill boettcher.

Bill B, I've re-guided a few kistlers to spiral wrapped micro's and they clean up just super beautiful. Cut through the finish and thread over the guide foot and it peels right up with hardly any resistance, no excess stuck to the blank. I have gotten a guide from them for a repair, it had excess finish on it that I had give some effort to.

I noted some of the above back when Bill Stevens first broke this and I have been biting my tongue. Now this...

"Two reported problems have possibly kept micro guides from becoming a standard in the industry. One trouble spot has been that guide inserts, both alconite and SIC, popped out of the frame; the other has been guides working loose in the rod's thread wrap because the foot itself is much smaller. Both were warranty issues that required providing a new rod to the user. Duckett believes he has solved both problems by slightly re-designing the guides he uses (they're made by American Tackle Co.). He added a slight groove inside the guide ring to seat the insert more effectively, and added an almost imperceptible notch on the foot to help anchor the wrapping thread. The most critical part, he believes, was keeping the guides balanced and maintaining their overall integrity, which he was able to do."

Did Boyd redesign American Tackle's guides?

I really need to brush up on my marketing skills to stay competitive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2009 03:37PM by Chuck Mills.

Chuck:

that is why I like Batson or American tackle guides.

Andrew:

maybe that is why G Loomis does not put finish on his new line of blanks ??

Any time I refinish a blank, I never put finish where the fore-grip seat or butt handle goes. I glue to the bare blank.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2009 03:49PM by bill boettcher.

The newer AMTAK fly guides had the "arrow" shape to them, I'm not so sure Duckett had anything to do with that. I agree with Chuck.

Match spinning guides were the future too at one time, and they definitely reduced weight. Shimano was one of the big names to use them, and I always felt they worked great. Customers had a hard time with sizes as small as 4. It also seemed like the "Y" frames killed them even though the "Y"s were not as light. Everything has it's time. We will see if the consumer will like them or not. It does seem like today's customer is more willing to at least try to see the advantages that custom builders have been doing for some time now.

They'll sell for a little while but I truly believe that the production companies will do like they've always done and set rods up to middle of the road use. They'll do a few things well but nothing great and that's where the custom builder will be able to step in and take the rod to another level.
Braid is a totally different animal than mono and vice versa. A round bait casting reel is a different than a low profile reel. And you don't even want to start talking about spinning reels and the 100 different ways to set one up.

I skuff the finish before installing handles, seats , or foregrips, it should not take a lot to skuff the area the micro is going to sit on, if coming out of the thread is a problem. i also knock the finish off the bottom of the foot as well.
two of the three i built don't get used a lot so obviously no problems, the other is used by a tournament fisherman with no complaints and i repaired one of his rods that the guides slipped out of the thread, it was a $200 name brand rod and it made my stuff look really good.

The marketing guys are busy lately. However, the accountants will be right behind them cleaning up. The additional cost of production for these companies will be higher than envisioned and the ROI will most likely be a negative number. Large production companies can only turn a profit when producing completely identical products in mass quantities ... micro-guides and custom builds don't fit that model.

A couple of days at ICRBE each year keeps us AT LEAST one year ahead of anything the production companies can turn out.

1. Kistler's claims - No one knows the date that Shakespeare's Midsummer Nights Dream was penned. Rodbuilders who use this forum KNOW the date the micro concept was introduced to ALL rodbuilders. Some even know the specific date it was introduced to production rodbuilders whose base of operations is in the Texas Area.

Is this just old stuff revisited - I think not. Try to locate a prior source for a casting rod that used only one size guide from butt to tip.

See:[rodbuilding.org]

2. Has the introductiom of the micro rods by production rod builders been helpful. You bet - new components have arrived and improvements are being made to existing components - the purchasing power of custom builders was not powerful enouth to get the necessarry changes made! Custom builders will benefit from the new products made available due to the purchasing power and efforts of production builders.

3. Is it going to be a fun ride - sure. It will be worth the trip to a retail outlet just to count the number of micro guides on a seven foot rod! Now all fishermen will have to decide who is right!

Jim - I disagree with you somewhat although I respect the perspective you're come from. One of the two companies mentioned has some very deep pockets and the marketing ability to get things up and running. They already proved they could go from "zero to hero" pretty quickly.

How will production be more? It really doesn't take much longer to wrap a micro than a standard guide. You could even see some reduction in costs on a production level - less epoxy, less thread, less prep (micros don't take as long to prep a foot, etc).

I guess I just don't see how mass produced micro rods are any different. Duckett is mass producing.

From the info I'm seeing, the other company is more of a pick one of these 8 handles (premade), one of these reel seats, pick type of guide, pick color thread, how long of a handle. Not custom in the sense of what some of us do (as many custom builders do the exact same thing with option 1,2,3...). Not sure how a web site selection can educate a client, help select the right blank, set up, etc, but it is offering options. I'll be very interested to see the return policy on the custom assembled rods resulting from this...

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Bill Stevens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Kistler\\\'s claims - No one knows the date that
> Shakespeare\\\'s Midsummer Nights Dream was penned.
> Rodbuilders who use this forum KNOW the date the
> micro concept was introduced to ALL rodbuilders.
> Some even know the specific date it was introduced
> to production rodbuilders whose base of operations
> is in the Texas Area.
>
> Is this just old stuff revisited - I think not.
> Try to locate a prior source for a casting rod
> that used only one size guide from butt to tip.
>
> See:[rodbuilding.org]
> 1
>
> 2. Has the introductiom of the micro rods by
> production rod builders been helpful. You bet -
> new components have arrived and improvements are
> being made to existing components - the purchasing
> power of custom builders was not powerful enouth
> to get the necessarry changes made! Custom
> builders will benefit from the new products made
> available due to the purchasing power and efforts
> of production builders.
>
> 3. Is it going to be a fun ride - sure. It will
> be worth the trip to a retail outlet just to count
> the number of micro guides on a seven foot rod!
> Now all fishermen will have to decide who is
> right!


I think Berkley did this back in the middle 1980s. Series One was the rod line I believe. What is being referred to as Micro Guides have been around for at least twenty years at least down to a size three or four. Custom rod builders here in the U.S. came to the Micro game much later than those custom and production builders in Europe or the Pacific Rim nations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2009 10:30AM by Peter Sprague.

i think the first users of micro guides were not manufactures but custom rod builders like Stevens and others. Its not the first time custom builders have influenced manufactures

Paul@soonercustomrod.com

In the outside world the Origin of the Species was determined legally in a Monkey Trial! Can you imagine how the public would have reacted to this trial if the Internet had been available at the time!

In the rodbuilding world, the orgin of the micro rod is clearly defined . Search this Internet Forum for "M&M Volume" and select the All dates option.

The following link is presented as Exhibit A to be submitted as evidence in the case before the panel of judges (fishermen) trying the case.

The M&M tag line may soon also carry a second meaning - Marketing Madness!

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