Hello, I have only built about a dozen rods and tried two epoxy finishes, Flex Coat and now u40 LS Supreme. Questions are: Do you recommend dabbing the guide wraps with masking tape before finishing to remove any dust and lint? Would try it, but kind of afraid the masking tape adhesive would make fisheyes. I sometimes get fisheyes, and bubbles that won't release. Any tips? Anyone found an epoxy less prone to fisheyes? I have found that using CP makes it easier to finish the wraps (no bubbles) as well as preserving the thread color. Also, I put a drop on small trim wraps to glue in place while I wrap other guides. Any difference between brands of CP?

Greg

I use an artist's paint brush to brush the dust and debris off of the wraps prior to finishing.

The tape may introduce contaminants . Dust off with a soft brush is all that is needed. CP is all different. Find one you like and go with it.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Blow on the epoxy through a soda straw before applying the epoxy and after it's on the wraps. It's amazing how it pops all but the smallest of nano bubbles.

John, I have found the straw works when mixing. I now stir without worrying about bubbles because laying the epoxy out on foil and blowing through a straw gets the bubbles out. The bubbles on the wraps are from the application, the thread, or something I haven't figured out yet. Once I tried applying heat from an alcohol lamp and it made more bubbles.

Let the finish do what it knows how to do. Don't dab it, don't brush it, don't do anything to it. Leave it alone. You should be able to finish a wrap in less than 30 seconds. If you're taking longer than that, you're not doing yourself any favors.

Most color preservers are very similar and at least 3 different brands are exactly the same product.

............

We use U40 LS supreme, for CP, we use U40 Color Lock 2. We do not use CP on all rods, but this works good for us. We use a mixer for the epoxy. We do not let it set too long. Follow the directions. If you do not let it set too long, it flows on good, levels good, no problems. We do hit it with a alcohol torch quickly. This really helps. If you use labels as we do, we like to coat them with CP first. I know a lot of other builders use other epoxies, but we are fairly new, and these work great for us.
Greg, if the lamp did not work for you, maybe it was bubbles comming out, not forming. I do not know for sure, just wondered. We do not have any bubble issues. Only if we do something special, like thread over EVA foam, which is real trickey. We do this to make a tapered thumb grip. We can get bubbles here.
Kyle Robinson

Greg, I have found my favorite brand of finish to be Threadmaster Lite. I have also used the Flex Coat Light with great results too, but the pot life of the Flex Coat is not as long as the Threadmaster, but the Threadmaster takes a longer time to cure. Threadmaster Lite also seems to have less bubble problems and any that appear after I have applied to the wraps are easily removed with by blowing thru a small straw.
I don't use CP very often, but when I do I use the U40 Color Lock 2. I just prefer the look of wraps getting darker or them blending into the color of the blank. For example, I have built several fly rods on the Orvis T-3 blank which is an olive color and I used olive nylon thread without CP and the wraps blend nicely into the blank color. If I am building on a polished grey blank, like a Diamondback or Dan Craft Sig V I'll use navy blue nylon with CP so the navy blue stays navy blue and doesn't go to an almost black color.
To remove any dust, I'll brush off the wraps with a brush prior to covering the warps. I would stay away from the tape, it could leave a residue on the thread. I would also make sure your hands are very clean when you are doing your wraps, if your hands are sweaty this could leave some natural oils found in your skin on the thread and cause the fisheyes . I clean my fingers with some Iso Alcohol before messing with the thread.
In all of the posts that I have read about which finish is the best, it really doesn't seem to come down to one hands down winner, its what works the best for you.

I always use 3M masking tape to dab the thread and have never had any issues.. I do this first then hit the wrap lightly with an alcohol torch to remove any "fuzzies" or lint which is trapped between the threads that wont come out. I dont like a cigarette lighter because the flame gives off a black smoke which can discolour your thread.I apply my CP and let it dry for 24. Before finishing I lightly dab the wraps again to remove lint and finish. Its always worked for me.

Some good points above to listen to which in my opinion could cause you more contanination problems.Wash your hands before doing any thread work. I have very oily hands and also wipe them several times during wrapping a rod with rubbing alcohol. Keep your thread in a sealed bag when not in use. Before using a new spool pull off the first couple of layers and bin it. You dont know what that thread has been exposed to before you got it.

Just a thought if your not wanting to use CP. Prime the thread with a urethane product like Lumiseal or Permagloss. Let that dry for 24 then finish with a 2 part. You wont have any bubble issues as the thread is sealed and no air will escape. I dont use heat at all on fluid epoxy. A straw and your breath is all that is needed. I have found heat just causes you more problems. The best way to avoid bubbles when mixing is an epoxy mixer. They really are the bees knees.

Greg,
In spite of the other advice, I use blue masking tape on every rod to insure that all of the dust, skin cells and any thing else is removed from the thread before finishing.
I have never had any issues with the tape leaving any residue.

I have tried a brush, but have found that often the brush will actually push the dust into the threads.

Use the method that works for you.

I use the blue painters tape for this job since the tack is considerably lighter than the cream colored masking tape.

You mention - fish eyes on your finish.
Are you speaking of fisheyes on the finish on the threads, or on the bare blank. I can't imagine that you would have a problem with fisheyes on the thread, unless you have some kind of oil or grease on the threads.

One thing that one has to be careful with - when wrapping rods is to insure that you aren't leaving excess skin oil on the threads. It is a good idea - much as a Doctor would do - to wash your hands frequently with soap and water to remove excess skin cells as well as to remove excess skin oil.

Once in a while I have come across a blank that - although it had been cleaned with alcohol and wiped down, it ended up leaving a couple of fish eyes on the finish. In these cases, I found that it was necessary to remove the guide, and then do a light rub down with scotch brite to remove and or slightly roughen the blank finish. This has only happened to me a couple of times in many many rods that I have fnished over the years. My guess is that for these few blanks that there must have been some sort of slight contaminent in the finish that needed to be removed.

Good luck
Roger

p.s.
Do some experimenting and use the method that works best for you. There is really no right or wrong way to do this particular job. ie. rod building. The bottom line - build the rod that you like, as you like and use the methods that work for you. As you build different rods, you may find that one method works well for one style and or type of rod, but find that you need to modify - in some way - your building procedures.

Good advice all around. I haven't been cleaning my blanks with alcohol before building. Funny thing is that my first rod came out great, probably because I was so paranoid about everything and so excited about getting it done quickly for a fishing trip. I used one coat of Flexcoat high build, and my homebuilt wrapper was new and clean, new thread, etc. I will sometimes get a fisheye on the second coat on the wraps, I usually blade the fuzzies off the first coat and recoat. From all your comments, I think my problems stem from lack of diligence keeping my hands clean, and the amount of time it takes me to complete a rod allows for more contaminants. I don't have a dedicated shop, so I have to set up and break down my work space for each process. I am not making excuses, just need to be more careful. I guess I do have another excuse to build that "man cave" out back I have been planning on.

Clean teh razorblade with alcohol, that is causing the fisheye I guarantee. That includes the non-sharp side.

I never clean mine. I have been using the same one for well over a year plus!! I just run it over a piece of 400 sand paper

Bill - willierods.com

Couldn't hurt to clean it, though. Good point, Billy, that's probably it. This last time it was a brand new exacto blade, not cleaned prior to use. Not as sharp as a single edge but easier to hold onto.

Greg

Most single edge razor blades have a petroleum type coating to prevent rusting when they come over on the slow boat from China. A one time clean should do it.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

i keep a large bottle of alcohol on my table, first thing i do is wash my hands in it before touching anything, i also wipe the rod down prior to starting work.
i like the clean the razorblade idea, never thought of that. but i will add that to the ritual.

Thanks for sharing that Billy, I dont have troubles, but prevention is a good step to keeping it that way.

I wash my hands, then wipe hands down with an alcohol soaked coffee filter, wipe the blank and then start the builld.....now I need to add that razor blade wipe to it also.

DR

I learned teh hard way with teh razorblades. I'd always have bubbles/fisheyes/foam right where I cut thread. SO I knew it was either the razor, or the pull through loop. Then it would be no bubbles on the first coat, but after I sliced off nubs off using a new blade they'd pop up. Sounds exactly like the problem Greg is having.

Guess I am just lucky ?

Bill - willierods.com

Maybe you wiped all the contiminatns off a year ago when you first started using the razorblade. FWIW, I also reuse my blades, with proper sharpening you can get them extremely sharp, expecially the exacto blades once you grind off the fine point. The MArquetry people sharpen their blades with a stone & a strop, I havne't bothered to go that far, I also use 400/600 grit paper on a block.