If you were giving advice to someone building a 8'6" 5wt premium fly rod, and he wanted to optimize for light weight and performance would you vote for

1) Titanium frame single foot ceramics from Fuji
2) REC recoil single foot
3) Single foot chrome because a hack like you (the builder) will never know the difference to justify spending the money on premium guides

I just feel like if I am going to justify spending the money on a premium rod, why would I not put premium guides to help the rod perform to its potential.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mke



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2009 07:04PM by Mike Ediger.

option 4)...
check out the Pac bay Minima F guides (single foot). They are light and not expensive.

I have recent;y switched to the Pacific Bay Minima 4 from the standpoint that they are more than adequate and far lighter than any other guide that offers a similar ring opening. Other than the fact that they're louder than ceramics (same noise when you strip line that you have with snake or wire single foots) they've done well for me this season. The additional responsiveness that a rod offers when the weight is kept to the absolute minimum, is a definite plus

..........

Lightest mass are the Recoils and significantly lighter than the Minima F. Consider the slightly heavier saltwater Recoils which may be quieter-less hum while casting. You might want to go with a ceramic tip top but the Rec tip tops are larger and easier to pass knots. If it is a two piece you could do Recoils on the top section and ceramics on the butt section.

John
God bless the troops and USA

No question. Recoil single foots.
H&H std loop tip top.
Double foot ceramic for butt section AmTac

I am liking the pac bay minima 4's, cost is key for me right now as I'm still pretty young. I will try out those recoil single foot guides for sure in the future.

Rust never sleeps, and premium rods are likely to be used for a long time. In addition to their light weight and unequaled resistance to damage and deformation the REC ni-ti alloy guides are the only truly rust proof guides I am aware of. This is a real plus if a rod is to be used in salt water.

American Tackle Ti guides, or single foot wire hard chrome.

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks guys. I have used recoils on my lighter rods and just couldn't decide if I should do something else for a 5wt. I think I will stick with what I know and like, recoils. with ceramic strippers, and either chrome or ceramic tip top.
thanks for you opinions. I appreciate them.
Mike

Mike - nix with the ceramic or chrome tip-top. The tip-top is the most weight sensitive part of the rod. Use the REC recoil with small ring.

I sent a Winston BIIx #9 back to the factory for grip warranty repair. Unbeknownst to me they also changed the orig equip Recoil tip-top to a "conventional" chrome tip-top. I did not notice it and the next time I used the rod I swore that they swapped the rod out for another one. When I called them on it they explained that people complained re the look of the recoil so they did me a "favor" and changed mine - it ruined the rod.
Herb

Really? Most people I have talked to have said don't use recoil tip top, but they haven't said why. Is the reason many people don't use them just because of the looks?

Mike,
Most that object to the recoil tip-top do not like the looks. Others claim the thin loop cuts fly line. Others say the line gets caught in the small space at the apex of the loop where it is swaged into the sleave.

Other than the looks - which is subjective - and no reason, as far as I am concerned, not to use them, the other reasons have not proved out to me and I use them exclusively. Especially how they increase performance.
It is not that I have not tried the others - I have. They just rob the blank of so much power that I just cannot use them. I am probably in the minority though because I do not see them around. Do your own tests and you will see the difference. I tried a ceramic and a chrome
tip-top on a #11 CTS Affinity-X - a brute. And I could see the difference. Your 5wt will certainly be a better performer with the REC - but you should try it for yourself. If you do not have one to try let me know what size you need and I will lend you one to try.
Herb

Thanks for the offer herb, I appreciate it. I have chrome already, so I will probably order a recoil TT and a ceramic and give them a shot.
Thanks for your help. Performance and light weight are what I am going for, so I appreciate your perspective.
Mike

Here check out the weight of Fuji Ti Tops to Rec [rodcomponents.koolhost.com]

Bill - willierods.com

Herb,
My biggest complaint it that they are sooo ugly.
I've read several of your posts and am tempted to try them in spite of their looks.
Have you experienced any corrosion problems with the aluminum sleeve.
I wish they would make an all titanium tip top similar to the std pear style loop.
Maybe in the future.

Bill, am I reading that right....they are exactly the same? TFST .194 vs RTUL .195?

There does not seem to be a ring size for the Rec tops. But if I am looking correctly The FUJI Ti top TFST 5-5.5 is .195 grams if the same size is Rec RTUL 5.5 S is .225 grams ??? If that is right. American Tackle does not have a Ti top. The S is for a small ring, the 5.5 is the tube size. They are both the same tube size of 5.5.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2009 01:47AM by bill boettcher.

Bill, Mike,
That is an old chart made when the original REC tip-top's sleave was made of stainless steel i/o aluminum.

Eugene,
No corrosion. I only fish in salt water. However. I do rinse my stuff off after each use with a hose. But I leave it wet to air-dry. Have been using them for 5yr with no sign of galvanic corrosion. Good question - but the answer is no.
Herb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2009 07:15PM by Herb Ladenheim.

Some updated info on the site would be nice.

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
O.K. - did some searching and experimentation:

I looked at the specs REC sent me a few months ago - I ASSUME that they are correct - who knows. The 4.5 tip-top, large ring, according to REC's specs weighs 1.95grams. Same as your chart - and same as the Fuji.

Then I put that tip top on one end of a balance scale and Fuji's lightest model - TFST7 - 4.5 on the other end.
The Fuji sank to the bottom.
But then I moved the Fuji towards the balance's center and it "evened-out" (balanced) at the mid-point. between the fulcrum and the end of the balance.
Which means, to me, that the Fuji is twice as heavy as the Rec recoil.

So if the REC weight is as stated in REC's stats - the weight of the Fuji has to be incorrect.
Herb