O.K., I'm finally convinced of the miro guide benefits. My only question is about locating the small size 6mm butt guide on a baitcasting rod. Is there any special issues with the small guide? All applications would be on bass rods mainly using small low profile reels.
From I what can find out, most seem to be locating the butt guide at basically the location as they would the 12mm guide, 20 to 23 inches from the reel. Is this the case?

On micro rods I feel that when a butt guide is set at an arbitrary distance, it sometimes necessitates at least one maybe two additional unnecessary guides Try letting your static test dictate the placement of the butt guide. In other words, use the same criteria for the butt guide distance as you do for spacing all the other guides.

Depending upon the blank action, you may find that some butt guides can be 30+ inches from the reel and work just fine.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

I also let the blank tell me where the guides should be. I have not done many micro bass rods yet, but getting into it more and more. The couple I have finished the first guide was in the 24" range away from the reel.

If you are using a level wind baitcaster i think your first guide is already about 1 inch maybe less from your reel face: Its your level wind.
So your butt guide is just another guide and should be placed just like you would any other.
Now if like me you take off the level winds or buy reels without them for the extra distance they can cast, you need to do your setup like you do with spinning rods, test casting etc to make sure its good for that reel on that blank.

One more thing to consider - size of the first guide on the rod can be the same size as all the others - try it and you will be surprised.

Larry,
Put the reel on the rod.
String line from the reel to the tip.
As you do, slip your butt guide on the line.
Put enough tension on the line so you have a straight line from the reel to the tip of the rod.
Slide the guide up the line until the line just touches the top of the guide.
Wrap the butt guide at that location.
If you don't like that location, because it is too close to the tip, go to a larger or taller guide

Bottom line - when line comes off the reel, the line will come straight off the reel - headed toward the tip of the rod. Anything that keeps the line from going in a straight unimpeded direction is going to slow the line.
So, simply place guides where line isn't going to be. In other words, on a good cast - the guides shouldn't be part of the equation. You should be having a free flowing line from the top of the reel to the tip of the rod.
Arrange your guides and guide sizes accordingly.

Good luck

Roger

Lou,

You're correct - the guide on the level wind acts as a guide of sorts, but it's very different from a standard line guide. It moves back and forth across the width of the reel spool.

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Roger, that sounds a lot like the cone theory for spinning rods. :) There's not much drag or friction involved during the cast. One thing that will impede the process is taller, heavier guides. I would not have believed that a 3mm stripper in a very not traditional placement would perform like it does until I built a few of them. Thanks Bobby & Bill for opening my eyes! That's my experience on the water. Your mileage may vary. I'm not going back.

You want to be careful any time you are working with a rod that has to do more than just cast a lure. With a good fish on the line you do not want the line down on your hand or below the rod between the reel and butt guide. This comes into play more on the lighter power rods where the rod can really flex down into the butt section. In those cases you may want to use a higher frame butt guide to keep the line up on top during periods of heavy flex down into the mid and butt area.

Tom, yes i know what you mean, i expressed that poorly. Its not 100% the same a line guide on a rod, but it exercises control of the line.
Its one reason i take them off or buy reels without line guides.
Plus when you take the levelwind/ lineguide off, you get more line billowing too. It exercises some control on that line billowing (is that even then correct term?), you have to compensate for that during the cast with your thumb. We have all unpicked the results of that going wrong.
This winter I will be trying the effect of my zero levelwinds ( i have an ABU9000C/ABEC5 and a rod that is great with 5 oz weights to test it on ) with the first guide at various distances from the reel closer than normal static placement would dictate. I want to see if it helps with backlash without affecting distance too much. Its all compromises. Have you done this and if so what were your findings if you do not mind sharing that data?

Right, I just mentioned it because many people forget that the level wind guide moves.

I think you'll find that a reel without a level wind gives greater distance, but this is partly because on a level wind reel the spool has to turn the level wind mechanism through a set of small gears. Even then, modern reel parts have gotten so light that any difference is not nearly what it was a couple decades ago.

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Most low profile level wind reels used in bass fishing today are designed so that the level wind guide does NOT move during the cast. Only during the retrieve.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

Some earlier ones even flew open - so the line wasn't forced to come into a stationary guide from an extreme angle. I don't think they make those any more however.

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It seems like having a level wind that does not move and stopped at one side of the spool and then the line on the cast has to come from the other side of the spool and back again several times would hurt casting distance??

It does reduce casting distance, but not by much. As lines have gotten smaller and more supple that sort of thing isn't as much of an issue as it was a couple or more decades ago.

If you were to attend a distance casting contest, you'd find that most of the really serious contestants remove the level wind from their casting reels (if they chose a level wind reel to begin with). But they're focused on maximum distance and even a few feet at the end of a several hundred yards long cast can be the difference between winning and losing.

When a company designs a bass casting reel they want it to cast well, but that's not the main priority. It has to do a lot of other things too.

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With out the level wind you may get the line piled on one side or the other. Would be a real pain to move the line back and forth with the thumb.

Seems like it would really affect the cast.

I don't think bass fisherman and woman, would use them if that was the case.

I'm guilty. My apologies Larry.

Sometimes it amazes me how easily we can hijack a thread.

Bobby Feazel

[www.shockwaverods.com]

Conventional wisdom will not open the box.

If hte guyu asking got his question answered and then the thread was hijacked it makes no difference if good information was shared. The more information the better.