ive seen it used on videos and seen it for sale but never used it or hear of anyone useing it is there a reason why no one speakes of this it seems like it would be easier than tubbing and bands is it a taboo just curious

I myself don't use it. I put my guides on with rubber bands and when testing it is easy to move them. When I wrap, I always keep measuring them and when I have a half wrap, I cut the band off. Works for me.

Bill - willierods.com

i can understand in the testing proccess why u wouldnt want to glue them but on small guids when it comes time to wrap it seems like it could be easer iam sure most people arnt big fingerd and clumbsy lige my self though

Ed
In that case if you need it to keep the guide in place -- use it. What ever works.

Bill - willierods.com

It works great but like most things there is a learning process involved in using it. The optimum amount of glue and the optimum temperature are the main factors involved.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

Follow-on question on this..... I am in the process of repairing about 20 fishing rods for a customer that were custom made by someone else. The original builder appears to have used a guide adhesive to hold the feet in place while the guides were wrapped. These rods are inshore boat rods, light and medium trolling / jigging rods with fairly large guides (6 have roller guides on them). NONE of the guide feet were ground or prepped in anyway. The wraps looked pretty good considering the shape the rod blanks / finish were in. What I mean is there was no obvious cracking of the finish at the point where the guide feet met the blank and there were no visible gaps in the original thread wrap. The guides were wrapped directly on the blank (no under wraps). I have never used guide foot adhesive but if it means that I don't have to worry over grinding guide feet ........ I may seriously consider it. I'd like to hear from some folks who have used it and how they used it. Do you still grind the guide feet or is that not necessary?

I recently began using the guide adhesive for rods with very small guides going on very small diameter tip sections. I only use them on the top few guides. Given my big hands, the stuff is a godsend.
I still grind all the guide feet.
At an advanced techniques workshop at Mudhole a few months ago, Scott mentioned putting down a layer of epoxy on the blank where the guide was to be wrapped. His rationale was that a tiny spur in the underside of a guide foot could, over time, cause enough abrasion for the blank to fail at that point. The epoxy finish served to protect the blank.
In a similar fashion, the person who gave me my basic training so many years ago under wrapped everything, saying the under wrap cushioned the blank. I don't know if that is necessary or not, but up until now, most of my rods get an under wrap of a different color than the over wrap. Personally, I just like the way it looks. I do NOT like black on black. That said, I am going to wrap a redfish rod tomorrow without an under wrap. I WILL use the guide adhesive as a blank protector on all the guides. I can't say if it is necessary or not.

My basic training mirrors yours Gary. The reasons given by my dad were the same as yours. Back in those days salt water rods were built on rugged blanks but underwraps were still deemed necessary. Can't say I remember a rat tail file in sight though. Guides do seem better finished today also. All of this makes me question my basic training (only safe now that dad has passed you see). I have not seen, nor used, the guide adhesive. Please report on how it goes and if you feel it would make underwraps a comestic thing only.

I can't tolerate a blank failure but other than that I'm looking to go as light as possible. Between braid and some of the new small 2-speed reels I'm intrigued with what seems to be possible. Time to revamp the arsenal! Sure would be nice if a grouper rod could weigh less than a bass rod from the past:)

Sounds like if the guides were at least preped on the under side and an under wrap were used they may not have failed ??

Bill - willierods.com

I use it on ice rods quite a bit. We are talking blanks with a 1/8 inch butt diameter so everything is tricky and way too small.

The trick is, as stated above, use the right amount of heat and the right amount of glue. If you get it too hot, the guide will take 5 min to stick, too much glue will peek out from in between your threads.

Low temp craft store hot glue sticks work just as good.

I swear by Flexcoat's Guide Foot Adhesive and have tried other hot melt adhesives (when i mis-placed my G2) and found them harder to manage. At $2 a stick, I didn't see much point in looking further as I've been on the same stick for four years.

Stan and others have hit the nail on the head about getting your technique down using the stuff. I've seen more builders than I can count trash the product on various message boards because they couldn't 'adjust" their guides after wrapping, the glue gushed out from under the guide foot and prevented proper thread packing, it contaminated their finish, etc, etc, etc... Not one of them was using it correctly. Where most people go wrong, is sticking the glue stick over a lighter flame, then rubbing the guide across the melted glue. That almost always results in a big glob of glue under the guide foot that squishes out from under the foot when you press the guide down. Don't do it like that!

I'm sure there are a number of way to skin it, but what works for me is the guide in one hand, the glue stick in the other and an Alcohol torch on the bench in between. I suppose a lighter would work if you had three hands... I start by softening the end of the stick by simply rotating it back and forth about 1/4" away from the side of the flame for a couple of seconds, just to WARM it, being careful to to get it hot enough to actually melt. With the stick still near (but not IN) the flame, I then hold the guide foot over the tip of the flame for a second or two (longer for heavy gauge guides), then wipe it across the face of the softened glue stick. I then check the bottom of the guide foot to make sure I got enough, but not too much glue on it. I just look for a "wet" look on the majority of the foot. if I didn't get enough glue, i do it again. If I get too much, i simply wipe the bottom of the guide foot against the side of the glue stick and the excess will transfer from the guide back to the stick. When i've got the right amount on the foot, I wave it over the flame a couple of times to re-heat it and I stick it one the blank. I usually do 3-4 guides at a time, check their alignment, then wrap them before I stick the next few on.

Alignment is pretty simple. Stick them on and check them. If you've got alignment issues, pop off the offending guide(s), re-heat them and stick them back on until you get them straight. They'll actually pop off quite easily. I normally only do a few at a time BECAUSE they pop off so easily. if I were to glue on 9-10 guides then go to work on my power wrapper, I'd probably knock one or two off before i got them wrapped. It's not like you just hot melted them to the blank. They're VERY easy to re-work before wrapping. Now here's the key for those who "can't adjust" the guides after wrapping... Don't wrap them 'till they're lined up! If you happen to knock one out of whack in the process of wrapping it, it's not glued to the blank anymore any way, so just adjust it like you would an un-glued guide.

It sounds like a lot of work, but I could have stuck the guides on a few 8' rods in the time it took me to type this. I can use the stick WAY faster than I can tape the guides on.

To Ken's question, I honestly don't get enough adhesive on the guide to bypass proper guide prep, or to take the place of an underwrap. I think Flex Coat used to market the product as a "cushion" under the guide, but from my experience, getting enough adhesive under the guide to protect the blank from a burr would have a lot of glue oozing out all around the foot and you'd spend 3X as much time trying to clean that up as you would have prepping the guide in the first place.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

Thanks Mark. The builder who made these rods didn't prep the guide feet at all. These were stuck down on the blank (solid fiberglass) and wrapped directly. I can tell from the residue that he didn't use very much - and I don't have any idea what type it was. It certainly did the job for him. The only way I could actually tell what was used was the trace left on the bottom/sides of the guide feet that began melting off when I prepped the feet on my sander.

I love it...won't use anything else.

I've got a ton of dental rubber bands that have been untouched for 7 or more years now.

I do all my testing etc with the guides taped on the blank. When I'm happy with my placement I then mark each guide location with a china marker. I pull off each guide and make sure they are all properly prepped.

Then its time to stick them on. I slowly warm the foot over an alcohol burner then swipe the foot across the glue stick. It takes almost no glue to get them to hold in place. And if I don't have a guide quite lined up, I don't even pop it off most times. I use a hair dryer and warm it and shift the guide slightly. I put all my guides on the rod at once.

I run down the blank and clean up my china marker with alcohol. If I see any glue residue at all, it takes just a pluck with the tip of an X-Acto knife. Most times any glue seen, is because the edge of my foot collected glue during swiping, not because of squeeze out. If you're getting squeeze out, you're using too much glue.

Now that the guides are on I don't have to worry about making sure they're still aligned and removing tape or bands in the middle of a wrap. I can just wrap.


............................

Better to have and not need than to need and not have.

Ed, I use it all the time on single foot guides. I still use tape on double foot guides. When it is used, all I do is heat the foot and rub it on the stick to get a thin coating and then after rubbing it, I heat the foot again to soften the adhesive and then affix it to the blank. Its so much easier than tubing or thin tape. It doesnt really provide and change to the wrapping and guide foot prep process, nor does it change the physical properties of the guide foot that would negate the need to not grind them down.

Kevin

thanks for the input guys i think ill give some a try it sounds like a good method when done right

Has anyone tried the Ducoe cement (glue) for guide placement. I red somewhere that it is good for setting guide feet. I think it is the old model builder glue.
Paul

Paul@soonercustomrod.com

I use it quite regularly and it is a wonder to use after you get used to it. I've never had a problem adjusting the guides after being wrapped just give it a little nudge and it'll move just fine. As has been said, a little goes a long way, too much will creep out from underneath the foor wreck havoc on thread and finish.

Have used it for years,heat and press with thumb, if too much oozes out use your fingernail to peel off the excess.

I use FC guide adhesive. I heat the guide foot for a few seconds with a soldering iron and swipe it on the stick to get a SMALL amount of adhesive on the bottom. The guide foot cools in seconds and I use rubber bands to attach all the guides to the blank. When I'm satisfied with the alignment, I use the soldering iron to heat up the guide foot and affix it to the blank. After heating the guide foot for a few seconds I use long nose pliers (with tape on the jaws to protect the blank) and put pressure on the guide for a few seconds to assure adhesion. The guides are now affixed to the blank in perfect alignment and are now ready to wrap without messing with tape or rubber bands.

Do you use it for both casting and spinning quides?