I jhave talked to some other rod builders and it looks like most no longer bother to spine their rods. I cannot tell any difference one way or the other. But some dealers I talk to say to spine is very important. Given that they have been in the business for a long time I wonder why they mention this if it is not needed.

Do the dealers who tell you that spine is important also happen to sell spine finding devices?

I don't spine my rods at all. I orient my guides based on the natural curve of the rod.

Paul

It's a simple matter to mock up your handle with tape shims, very snug so it doesn't easily turn or twist, and then set things up on the spine and go out and try it. Then move everything around, off the spine, on the natural curve, etc., and try it that way. Find the orientation you like the best and build it that way. There is no right nor wrong way to orient things. If there were, then millions of rods would be exploding, casting around corners, etc.

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The truths we hold to be self-evident are nothing of the kind. It's interesting how more and more of the beliefs we cling to are shown to be myths.
On the very first page of "Fiberglass Rod Building," Dale Clemmens, talking about guide orientation states: "There are 360 degrees around a blank, bit only one spot is the correct one."

Then on page 92: "In the manufacture of of commercial rods this step (determining the spine) is sometimes skipped, or done improperly, and a rod that is an abomination to cast is the result. This is another example of why a carefully fitted custom-made rod will almost always be superior to a custom rod."

In 1975, my teacher/mentor told me he had abandoned spining rods, and instead was locating the guides where the straightest rod would result. I had "Improperly" spined a blank, (grossly so, according to the wisdom of the day) and couldn't understand why it cast so accurately. Since that time, I have built for the straightest rod possible. They all cast accurately, spined correctly, incorrectly, or not at all.

But I wonder: the story that unless the rod was spined and the guides located exactly 180 degrees from the "high spot" of the blank, an abomination of a rod would result...where did Mr.Clemmens get this idea? Did anyone actually test this out? Or did we simply accept it as true and use this as a sales tool? Were we misleading our customers? Were the blind leading the blind?

Tom, I like your standard advice: "Try iy and see for yourself." A good credo to follow.

Custom rods offer MANY benefits to their owners and users, spine mythology notwithstanding. So many, in fact, that there is no reason to create a benefit where one does not exist.

It wasn't based on any facts or testing, just what seemed to make sense based on what happened when you flexed a blank by hand. But that's not what happens once you wrap guides on a rod and use it on the water. Beyond that, none of us casts or fishes a rod on a single plane anyway.

Not too many years back it was still thought by many that if you didn't build your rod on the spine (or opposite it) the blank would twist under load. I had a friendly argument with with Cam Clark 25 years ago about the spine versus the lever arm effect of the guides and which one actually caused twist. Some years later his publication recanted their position on improper spine orientation causing twist and accepted the fact that it was guide location that determined if a rod would twist or not.

Luckily for all rod builders, there is no right nor wrong position. And every one of us has the ability to test cast and fish before we lock things down so setting up a rod the way you or your customer prefers is very easy to do.

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For fly rods where the guides are on the bottom of the rod for both casting and fighting, the spine has no effect at all. Building on the straight axis gives you a straight rod.

I'll believe that spine is important when someone can identify where it is by casting and fishing a rod. If spine's effect were so large, and therefore so important, one should be able to identify it during normal use of a finished rod. The fact that nobody can do it, to me, says that spine doesn't really matter.

I spine all the rods I build and place the spine facing the fish without regard to type of rod.
My rationale is that the highest loads encountered will be while fighting the fish. This places that half of the blank in compression. Most hollow cylinders fail from compression load rather than tension. Graphite fibers are very resistant to tensile failure. By placing the strongest portion of the blank in compression and allowing the weakest portion to be in tension, the material is more likely to handle higher loads prior to failure.
How much higher ??? Depends upon the amount of ovality and material thickness differential.
Probably different for every blank. This makes more sense then placing the weaker half of the blank in the worst area to handle compressive loads. Or worse not knowing where the strongest and weakest halves are located in relation to the highest anticipated load.
May be completely incorrect but it makes me feel better for the effort.

I know we like to think that the rod companies cut corners and that a custom rod is superior in every way, but rod companies are still faced with keeping costs down as much as possible while trying to best their competitors in the sales game. This means that if a certain alignment of the spine could reduce breakage they would do it. If it meant that a certain alignment of the spine would increase casting accuracy or distance they would do it. Finding the spine on a rod takes mere seconds so if there was any cost, sales or durability advantage to doing it, all the rod companies would do it. As far as I know, most do not. I no longer bother with it and cannot tell any difference whatsoever.

The stiffest axis of any blank is generally going to be along the straightest axis, on the convex side of the natural curve or warp. This is another part of the rationale that commercial rod manufacturers use for building on the straightest axis rather than the spine.



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Tom Kirkman Wrote:
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> There is no right nor
> wrong way to orient things. If there were, then
> millions of rods would be exploding, casting
> around corners, etc.
>
> ...............

Casting around corners....thats funny stuff!

I need to get this out of my crawl. I believe my old Dale Clemons book said when finding the spine or spline in the blank you rotate the rod in your hands on a hard surface and when the blank comes to the top and wants to Pop Out of your hands you have found the spline. This top is where you place guides for a casting or conventional rod and the opposite(180) is for spinning. Did I read this right? I thought I had this thing cured but reading into this forum has caused me confusion.

Jeff -
You are correct that is what is written in Fiberglass Rod Making by Dale Clemens. That is how many people found the spine/spline on rod blanks before spine/spline finders came along. The bigger question is "Do you need to find the spine/spline at all?" Certainly the "revolver" or "acid" / "spiral" wraps give lie to this thought. I do not believe this is a necessary step in building a rod - but I also believe that it MAY be possible to 'tune' a rod by orienting the guides better.

On an interesting side note: Four years ago (at the last Expo held in Charlotte) Don Morton had an exhibit that actually showed that the spine on a rod can (does) change over the length of the blank. When the sp(l)ine is found over the full length of the rod it is an average of all the different "spines" in the manufacture.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2009 07:07PM by Ken Preston.

There is no such thing as a rod "spine" insofar as any physical thing inside the blank. It's not like your backbone. The spine is the result or effect of a variety of manufacturing anomalies. I think most anyone that has ever pressured and rolled a blank around in their hands has noticed that the location of the spine effect changes as you bring more or less of the blank into play. Remember, the spine isn't a thing - it's an effect.

Dale Clemens changed his mind between his first and second books. In the first, the spine was the point where the rod blank did not want to stay put. In the second, it was the place where the blank, when pressured, came to rest.

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