I read Tom's article about running finish in the new Rodmaker Magazine. I noticed that he was using a broad brush, and went to my catalogs to see what he was using for the brush. I found several adds for Red Sabel brushes, and several adds for brush cleaner. I went to my local "rod builder" supply store, and even though he stocks several different finishes, and throw away brushes, he did not have the wider brushes and brush cleaner. when I asked about this, I got a lecture on how dumb I was for wanting to use anything other then a 1/8" throw away brush, and he would not sell anything that might cause cross contamination on his finish. I hate to say it, but I have been lead down the "Rose path" more then once by this individual. I only use this store because it is local, and I can get things today that would take a week other wise. I will turn the rant mode off.

I guess the questions I have are:

What are you all using for the wider brushes, are they Red Sabel, or some other bristel?
What brush cleaner are you using, is there anything that I need to know about this cleaner that would cause a problem with the finish, or make it easier to use?
Where can I get the "micro brush" that was shown in the article for doing the guide foot?

Mike,

I'm no expert, but for me, I like the throwaways. They are cheap, easy, and no mess or fuss. I get a new one every time and never have to worry about cleaning a thing. If I want a micro brush, I simply trim out 1/2 the bristles or more and I now have a micro. I just cant see complicating things with such a simple easy system as this.

DR

DR:

Been using your system for years, and it works. I was just trying to learn something new that might work. I know that Tom spent time writing an article for Rodmaker, and I have some questions about his system.

in addition to removing "half" of the bristles on a throw away brush if you cut away (i.e. shorten the remaining bristles) the brush becomes stiffer and "simulates" the flatter brushes in the article.
Bill

Bill:

I saw the picture in the article, and I am sure that Tom was using a "Micro brush" of some sort. These are commercially available, and as soon as I saw them in a local Auto Paint store, I thought that they were perfect for this chore. I simply do not want to pay the price for 5 brushes that I could get 100 of them for.

I am somewhere in the middle...

I use a throw away brush but keep it clean in the U-40 brush cleaner. No problems with it. If you want a good brush cleaner, try the U-40. It does not evaporate and cleans many brushes. I pour a little in a cup, wipe excess epoxy from my brush, dip it in the cleaner, wipe off again, and they clean the bristles in the cup...leaving it to soak. The light weight of the plastic handle does not deform the bristles.

Call me crazy, but now days I imagine everything I throw away as going somewhere...the ocean, a landfill...I'm doing my best to cut down on throw aways. Every little bit helps.

Imagine if every rod builder on this board alone saved all their trash for the year and piled it in one place at the ICRBE. I wonder how big a pile it would make?

And could micro guides cast over it?!?

Les

i use throw away brushes i dont throw them away i keep them soaking in a snapple bottle with some laquer thinner in it and have had brushes in service for months all i do is wipe the thinner off use the brush and wipe the finish off and throw it back in the bottle and shut the top. the only time the brushes get messed up is when i forget to throw it in the bottle and they harden.

I am fairly new to the rod building community after a 25+ year absence that is. I am not a professional by any stretch of imagination, but that being said everyone who sees my finishes likes them. I use 20 brushes for .99 (thats right ninty nine cents). They come in 6 sizes (artist paint brush set) #1 through #6. 2 or 3 uses and then usually off to the garbage.
If allowed I will post the link to them, they are not a supporter of this board.
Mark

i reuse my brushes.. used to clean them in thinner, but could not take the smell.. so i bought a bottle of brush cleaner and it's been working well so far.

i use china bristle brush for application of CP, but for finishing, i favour using nylon. i tried sable long time back, but lack of proper cleaning caused it to solidfy on me one..

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

I prefer a spatula for the big jobs and toothpick for the little ones. I did get some of the micro brushes from one of the sponsors on the left; the brushes are OK and once used I will pull off the bristles and I'm left with a very nice plastic toothpick for the next job :)

The only time I throw a brush away is when and if I drop it on the floor.
I have all sizes of brushes that I use for the size and amount of epoxy I'm going to use. My brushes are so old I could list them as dependents.
My methed for cleaning brushes is as follows: Whipe out brush with a rag before you put it in the cleaning fluid so as not to fill bottom of jar with gobs of old epoxy. Swish , wiggle, rotate the brush on bottom of the jar. Remove from fluid and whipe it out again using a clean rag. Put it back in the fluid again and dance it around in there once again. Remove from fluid, whipe off the fluid and bring it to a sink (laundry sink in basement) apply a small amount of liquid dish detergent to the bristles and give it a shampoo by adding a little water and lather it up real good. Using a fingernail brush while holding against the sink bottom I combe or brush out the bristles under running water( this whole process takes 30 seconds) After you rinse out the suds, whipe out the water, and put it in a open top container with the bristles up until you need it for your next epoxy job. I dont buy expensive brushes, just ones that have the right texture. Usualy CHINA BRISTLES, But the head size is what makes a driffernce for the specific task. No matter how much you spend on brushes , you'll never have to worry about loosing a good brush if you clean it right. I'm telling you, 30 secs is all it takes.
Try it!
Dennis J.Danku

I use "acid flux" (available from several of the popular sale/resale sites) brushes and toss them away. Normally I will have two, three or four rods "queued up". The only issues I've had with them is that since they are crimped metal tubes the bristles can come loose so I pull on the bristles before I start to remove any loose ones. I figure two to three rods/brush is economical enough.

Tom has written a great article on how to apply the finish to the wraps and it is just about how I have been doing it for a very long time with no problems. I too let the finish come off the end of the brush without touching the threads as he describes in the article. I use a Red Sable Brushes and they are wide , I use a 2 inch brush for the butt wrap because my butt wraps range from 12 to 14 inches long and a 2 inch brush will cover it faster then a smaller one. I use a 1/2 to a 1 inch brush depending on the length of the guide wrap.
My brushes were all purchased in art supply stores and thats where you can find Red Sable Brushes . Let me warn you that they can be very expensive if they are genuine all sable hairs. Mine cost more then $50 35 years ago so I cant imagine what they will charge today. Not all sables are the same because if the brush has only a few sable hairs they can call it a salbe brush. Rememeber you get what you pay for.
As for cleaning the brushes I more or less use the method as Dennis Danku described and my brushes have lasted all these years and are still in great shape.
That was a great article in a great magazine and these comments and discussions on this subject was a pick me up when I could use one.

Interesting topic. I have a fair number of red sable and Kolinsky sable brushes but have not used any yet for fear that I may ruin them. Currently using those disposable ones. Just ordered a stack from Harbor Freight at 99 cents on sale so we'll see how those are. However I also noticed at the factory benches, they use sable brushes so I assume that they must be better than the disposable ones, at least if you are finishing hundreds of wraps a day.

Some of my Sable brushes are quite expensive that I picked up decades ago. But some are downright cheap as they are cosmetic brushes that you can find in garage sales. Some of these cosmetic brushes can run in the three figures new!

Mo

The link for 99 cent brushes-

[www.harborfreight.com]

All of the acrylic finishes are easily cleaned from a sable brush using methyl ethyl ketone or acetone. Methyl Ethyl Ketone is not as volatile, but takes longer to dry. Both work quite well for cleaning brushes. Both should be used where you have some good ventilation, and make sure you don't have any flames nearby since they are both volatile and flammable. Likewise, both are easily purchased at any good hardware store over in the paint department.

Use an old lab trick to get it really clean. Instead of rinsing the brush with a bigger sample of the ketone, consider using a series of small samples that you use to wash the brush multiple times. One of the small finish mixing cups works very well for this. Put a little ketone into the cup and wash the brush in it by pretendiing you are mixing epoxy and you don't give a damn about bubbles. Now, throw that little bit of ketone away and put another small amount in the cup. After each small rinse throw it away and start with another small amount of fresh ketone. After about three washes you should be finished and the brush will be much cleaner than if you had washed it in a bigger cup once with more solvent. Make sure you do not set the brush in a position to dry where there is any pressure on the hairs when it is wet. It will warp the brush out of shape permanently, and you need that nice flat edge..

I've used the same set of fine sable brushes now for about a of year. They are still in great shape, although the handles are looking a bit ragged.

I do not use the throw away brushes anymore except perhaps when using Five Minute epoxy. The sable brushes simply work so much better and are quite easy to clean..

Bill & Martha Cason
Cason Custom Rod Finishes, LLC
Houston, TX

Home of Cason's Crystal Clear Color Preservers.

Wow. I use the brushes at the dollar store that are or seem like synthetic. The bristles don't come off as I'm working and I get a decent amount of brushes in the pack. I have used them straight from the pack and cleaned them prior to use in case there was silicon. Same results. Good! I like them better than hair brushes hands down.
I save them after use and use them to stir new batches or glue. Not one problem.