Alex Z and I have been emailing back and forth comparing some new blanks to the blanks that we typically recommend. Alex and I have similar build philosophies but differ in regards to brand etc. when it comes to blanks. So....the topic of sensitivity came up. I mentioned to him that some of my club members and myself find a VERY popular affordable series of blanks to feel completely dead in regards to feeling a bite, bottom contact, bottom composition. What is odd about that is this same series get's very good recommendations here and on other sites for just those attributes...and at a lower cost. Alex related a similar experience with two different blank lines. So here is my theory and basis for what I hope is a good discussion.

I have a theory that sensitivity (when it relates to feeling vibrations transferred through the blank) is a learned skill and that a fisherman becomes accustomed to a particular feel that is unique to a particular blank line/ material.

Any thoughts?

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

I agree, not knowing nearly as much as you do about building rods, but a high end rod in the hands of an amateur does not mean he/she can detect a bit any better than a pro with a glass rod. I still don't own a graphite spinning or casting rods, but I spend most of my time watching my line and rod tip when fishing for bite detection rather than relying soley on feel.

I think it's like wearing a pair of sneakers, or a baseball glove. Once you get accustomed to one brand, switching to a different brand just doesn't feel right. I totally agree with your theory, which is why when I speak to a guy looking for a rod I find out what rods he had been using and is lookin gto replace, so I can pick the right blank to match the wayhe currently fishes, or to let him know in advance teh differences between what he's using now, and what he's looking to get.

Quite a while back, I had a bass boat and fished for bass all the time. At the time I owned a bunch of fiberglass rods , while a friend that was fish with me handed me an expensive graphite rod to fish with. Immediately I felt the difference! I could feel the jig bouncing on the bottom, and even could tell if I was fishing over a hard bottom, weeds, etc. Also, I could feel every vibration in crank baits, spinner baits, etc.

I now fly-fish only. I’ve found that in general, faster action / high modulus graphite rods have much more feel than the slower action rods. I think of it like this, when I was a kid, I had an old truck with heavy leaf springs and could feel every bump in the road. When I borrowed my father’s old Buick with the cushy soft suspension, the ride was smooth and the bumps were not felt.

Weight is the big factor in sensitivity other factors being equal.

Stan Grace
Helena, MT
"Our best is none too good"

I've come to nearly the same conclusion. From a mechanical and tactile perspective, it takes some people years to tune into using the rod to detect subtle sensations transmitted through the blank; for most, this takes a lot of focus and concentration. Those who do develop that skill are definitely impacted by a blank's ability to transmit vibrations and varying the blank they're used to fishing.

To add to your theory, my observation is that many anglers (some very good fisherman) never really attempt to learn this. Those who are predominately tip-watchers, line-watchers, as well as those who keep the line between their fingers just don't rely as much on rod vibration, and may never develop the "feel" or skill you describe. I go through this a lot with customers when they insist on sensitivity as their primary concern. Many times, they 're tip-watchers and are actually looking for "extra-fast action," where almost any decent blank will meet their needs :-)

Some good thoughts out there.....thanks for the reply's. I noticed that I missed my point a bit though. My theory is more towards the way a specfic brand blank transmits vibration. I think we can all agree that a Loomis GLX and SCV series blank are very high end. Personally, I fish a lot of St. Croix products....I am used to how they feel. I believe that I feel more with an SCV that with a GLX in similar length, weight, power etc. Now...People that fish Loomis products probably feel different. My thought is that since I am used to the St. Croix blanks I get more out of it. Now, that doesnt mean that an SCV is better than a GLX....just different. Billy hit it spot on in the comparison to shoes....I'll definately pay more attention to what my customers are currently using.....

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Have to disagree here! I am old enough to remember the first time I used an All Star graphite rod rather than my trusty Lami glass rod. The difference was very prounced and on the first cast it was "wow". I used both for Slider fishing and do still consider myself a line watcher. I did not have to learn anything to tell the improvement because I could feel stuff much better than with the glass rods. That said there are probably dozens of things that make a big difference in that majic "feel" we all want. Yes years of fishing have honed my poor skills and at times I just "know" the fish is there but if I compare two different rods one will almost allways have more "feel" (whatever that means) than the other. However the more I learn and the longer I do this the better I like my "home built" rods! "So many blanks, so little time"!!

HE's not comparing a glass rod to a graphite rod, rather similarly rated rods which are all in teh relatively same price point, using the same level of each company's materials (GLX vs SC5, not SC5 vs GL2).

For the fishing I do, I used to have a few differnt rods, from various Manu's, specifically Calstar, GUSA, & Lamiglas. Throught the course of a day fishing (SW bottom fishing with 6-12oz sinkers, sensitivity very important, sort of - I watch the line) I would switch from one rod to another, and found that each tim eI switched I had a difficult time with the different feel from one rod t the next. If I used the GUSA first, the other 2 composites felt dead and I missed bite after bite. Vice versa, the GUSA was way too sensitive and I'd set teh hook too soon. After a while I realized that having various rods with me was impacting my fishing results, and I went ahead and sold teh rods I liked least, and built myself the same exact rod on teh same blank for the one I liked best. Now when I switch from one rod to teh other, there is no adjustment needed. I know this misses your point again, but I think it is sort of in line with what you are getting at.

One day your favorite shoe company goes out of business. Then someone buys their name. Now your shoes are made somewhere else and don't feel the same. Next you are out on the street, shoeless, with blisters, window shopping and feeling like you have to go with a big name brand to be happy.

I think everyone's first experience with graphite was eye opening. There was no going back in spite of breakage problems. Fenwick once offered a UL boron blank that I really loved. It didn't last but I'd still buy it again if I could. Good glass still has its place, especially for heavy work.

Different fishing styles require different things. I'll often fish a live bait with no tension so I have to watch the line. Once I get picked up the ability of that blank to transmit info comes into play. Then you have to consider that blanks that are more "sensitive" generally have better damping and reasonant freq. They are better fishing fighting machines aside from helping you catch more in the first place!


Russ

I agree 100% that changing from one manufacturer's blank to another (or different levels within one mfg's blanks) makes a big difference in satisfying your learned or trained sensitivity. I trained my sensitivity on Croix's high-end blanks, and GLX just didn't work for me in terms of sensitivity. Then I found XMG50 from Lami, and re-trained my sensitivity on that line of blanks. Now everything else feels mushy until I fish them a while.

Darrell Diskey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree 100% that changing from one manufacturer's
> blank to another (or different levels within one
> mfg's blanks) makes a big difference in satisfying
> your learned or trained sensitivity. I trained my
> sensitivity on Croix's high-end blanks, and GLX
> just didn't work for me in terms of sensitivity.
> Then I found XMG50 from Lami, and re-trained my
> sensitivity on that line of blanks. Now
> everything else feels mushy until I fish them a
> while.


Exactly what I meant....at least I'm not the only crazy one.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Scott You Bad!

Fitting topic for a Friday!

Lots of different kinds of fishing - and many different turns to this worm!

Probably just as many power techniques as finesse - depends on specific circumstances.

A Man For All Seasons can easily turn into A Rod For All Techniques

A blank could be used primarily as a lure presenter and fish recovery device -

What sence is used for bite detection if the bite occurs while the lure in on the fall, i.e., with line slack or semi slack?

Does this occur frequently?

In many instances putting fish in the boat can be identified with "fishing sence" -

Many times while bass fishing cover with jigs if you wait till you feel something in hand as the old saying goes "if you snooze your lose!"

Sometimes the sensitive blank may help out and at other times the angler experience is primary.

The the real "sensitive" object in the boat will be the angler that hears from the back of the boat - HEY YOU JUST MISSED ONE!

This even happens to me when fishing for speckled trout with a popping cork - I may be lolly gagging when the cork lays down and never felt a thing! I wonder how many bass fisherman will go high roller on the rod and then sit in a boat and close their eyes to they can concentrate on the sence of feel!

Sometimes sensitivity is best defined as "nothingness." Set the hook!

Agree. However, I also believe that watching the line beats any rod sensitivity all day long. I have a friend who's just amazing with mini-jigs and he watches the line as the primary method of strike detection. Although he has highly custom high dollar GLX blanks, he still watches the line. The problem of course is that his eyesight is incredibly because I can't duplicate his ability to see 2lb mono. I don't even see the line half the time that he sees.

Mo

LAst Winter I started playing around and hand lining by grabbing the line after it left the tip. I couldn't believe how much I was missing when holding the rod, tehbites were INCREDIBLE, yet when holding the rod and even when watching the line you couldn't feel or see 1/4 of what was really going on. It was a lot of fun, and I recommend that everyone perform teh same type of Test", just to break up teh monotony of fishing the normalway. Before you know it I'll be recommending COke cans with line wrapped around them instead of fishing rods

Good thread here! I also do a lot of fishing where the feel of the bass picking the lure up is important to me. This is one of the reasons that we build our own rods. I like a light weight blank, ned hvy fast. I can tell a big difference between the feel of 20 lb braid vs mono. The braid works better for me. The "feel" of lure comes up the braid, through the guides to the blank. This is the feel I want. I fish a lot of heavy timber, and feel the bait moving over the tree limbs under water. Waiting to feel "something different" that helps me detect the fish picking up the lure. And I am always watching my line. Here I agree with Mo Yang. A lot of times, that a pick-up is seen in the line, just as the "feel" is transmitted up the rod blank, sometimes sooner. A well seated reel seat is another must. This also helps transmit the feel. I may even use an extra guide on my rods, as I feel the guides help to transmit this feel to the blank. A good braid will work like a telegraph wire, IMO.
Like a lot of fishermen, who builds their own, I have my top rods that I like to use the most. Several different manufacturers of blanks. G. Loomis, St. Croix, Lamiglass, plus a few others, are in the mix. I got a few from Swampland that are excellent! Not at all expensive, but very sensitive, and work great for my applications. Very light, and sensitive.
But some of the best results may be in how I built on the blank. For example, I have one spiral built rod, that I think is one of the most sensitive. It is a heavy action, fast. Built on a Castaway 845. Heavy, but very sensitive. I use it for heavy plastics and jigs in heavy cover. I have not built as many as a lot of you guys, but the ones I have built work for me. Feel is everything, though!
Kyle Robinson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2009 11:31PM by Kyle Robinson.

Kyle: Very interesting comment on the spiral - normally used with tip up for bite detection - I feel one slight advantage of the spiral, for this technique, is the line "hanging free" under the blank. This removes the "effect" of line slack clinging to the top surface of the blank during the "line slack", jigging, periods. This enhances the ability of line watchers to observe "any" upset in the way the line moves with minimum interference. Wet coils in fluoro or mono or long sags of braid dropping to blank surface, on conventional builds, due to gravity slightly impede line movement during periods of "lure free fall".

Thanks for your kind words on the Castaway 845 - no body ever accused that beast of a blank of being sensitive. Bobby Feazel and I did load testing and comparison tests on his testing board on that specific blank yesterday - compared it to six other blanks seeking a match - when done I think the last word Bobby would use for that blank is sensitive.

THAt's because everyone has a different opinion of what sensitive is. I wouldn't be surprised if you polled 100 fisherman to see what was more sensitive, a GLX.SC5, or an ugly stick, that the ugly stick would get more votes.

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THAt's because everyone has a different opinion of
> what sensitive is. I wouldn't be surprised if you
> polled 100 fisherman to see what was more
> sensitive, a GLX.SC5, or an ugly stick, that the
> ugly stick would get more votes.


Hah...no kidding....of course most of those 100 would probably say that just to justify NOT spending money on better equipment. But you are right, everyone has a different idea of what sensitivity means...that's why I mentioned in the first post what attributes I was looking at.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com