Some years ago (probably between 10 and 20) I read an article about a different sort of guide train arrangement for a spinning rod.
Basically, let's say you were wrapping a 7' spinning rod with six guides and a tip top. Normally, the butt guide would likely be a 30 ring (or thereabouts). This article suggested making that first guide about a 12 ring.
The theory was to funnel down the coils of mono as quickly as possible, instead of using the conventional "slow funnel" approach. I may be mistaken, but I believe the guide ABOVE the butt guide was actually larger, like a 20 or 25 ring. The remainder of the guides decreased in size in a more normal fashion. The author swore that this arrangement increased casting difference significantly. I am not so sure.
Times (and mono line) have certainly changed since that article was written. One rarely sees mono laying in tight coils on the surface of the water after being cast. Given that this is the case, I have been wondering about a few things: 1. Is a 25 or 30 ring really necessary on a 7' spinning rod designed for, say, 6-14 lb line? Mono is certainly much limper than it used to be, and given the other type of lines being used on spinning reels, how much "funneling" is actually taking place? 2. Is the diameter of the reel spool more important than line itself in determining butt guide size? And finally, 3. Did the guide arrangement as described above have any merit at all, or was it just a gimmick a custom rod maker came up with to sell more rods?

It was a gimmick - why not try it for yourself and satisfy your own curiosity.

The size of the butt guide ring has nothing to do with the length of the rod and everything to do with spool size, line diameter and stiffness. Guide height is generally as important if not more so than guide ring diameter.

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I thought as much. I can't see a set-up like that doing anything other than decreasing casting distance. It is just that this distance contest has me thinking...not necessarily with an eye toward building a distance casting machine, but about the variables affecting specific performance metrics on any given rod. For that reason alone, the proposal is valuable.

Again, tape up a set of guides and try it - that way you'll know for sure what effect it has.

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I did that this afternoon with a 7' Shikari moderate action, light spinning rod. 6 lb test line on a Shimano Stradic...distance with 7 guides plus the tip top, bottom guide a 30, then 25, 20, 16, 12 10, 8, 6 and a 6 ring tip top... 142'. Swapping out the 30 for a 16, distance dropped to 108'. Best of 3 casts with each setup.

Throwing a hookless Acme Kastmaster. Not trying to set records, just get a comparison.

I use the tallest 12 spinning guide I can find as the butt guide on my rods, so no a 25 or 30 isn't a must. You just have to break the mentality or using big, heavy guides.

Gary, so you went to a 16-25-20-16-12-10-8-6 setup then or am I missing something?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2009 04:01PM by Tim Collins.

No, I was missing something. I go crosseyed typing lots of numbers.

The set-up that did not work was as follows: 16 25 20 16 12 10 8

The rod was wrapped (yesterday) as follows: 30 25 20 16 12 10 8

The tip is an 8 ring.

I had a 6 ring guide and tip top on the bench...and they are still there. Total number of guides is 7 plus the tip top.

I posted a photo of the burl cork foregrip with the dark teal underwrap that is the base for the butt wrap. I'll post pics of the completed rod once the finish is on and dry.

Sorry about the confusion.

Sounds like the old cone of flight ??

Bill - willierods.com

Was the height of the 16 the same as the height of the 30? If not, I think the guide may work as a brake, as it is too short. If it is the same height as the 30, and has perfect alignment with the spool, and the second guide, or staying within the correct alignment to the choker guide, it may not be as big an issue. With a limp line like a braid, like suffix 20 lb, I think it may flow nice on a cast. With a heavy mono, or a stiff floracarbon, the results may be not so good. I fish only stradics 2500 mostly, white version, , have a couple new 1000's also. They do not like all kinds of mono. You must be careful what you use. The angle through the guides are like a flight path. The guide height is important. I think this is what Tom was saying. But he wanted you to see it yourself. This is why spinning rods have the higher butt guides, to allow for the line to follow a proper angle, the proper height, not necessary on a casting rod. Line feeds off the reel at a lower height on the casting rod. And on a casting reel, the gravity does not pull the line away. Bigger rings can help gather the line, tame it, pass along to the next guide on the spinning rod. Take away some of the wild loops, which braid can do for you, you do not need as big a ring, but the height is as important as ever, maybe more. I do not use many 30 rings. But I really keep an eye on the palcement of the guides.
On page 34 ofRodMaker 12-4, there is an interestin Q&A about the guide sizes. Very interesting. A 2 minute read says a lot. check it out.
Kyle Robinson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2009 12:52AM by Kyle Robinson.