I have a 13' Talon float rod and since I couldn't cast a pin, I got another butt section and converted it into a spiral wrap to use my baitcaster.

I can probably cast it somewhere around 3 1/2 miles.

Eugene,

We'd be talking about what reasonable rod builders would consider a common fishing outfit. A guy that has to stretch or bend the rules in the sort of fashion you mention isn't interested in having a good time with other builders - he's simply interested in winning by whatever means necessary. Thankfully I don't think we have many of that sort at the Expo.

.................

Bill,

Your point is valid insofar as casting reels go, but even then, I've seen such competitions and many are won by guys casting lower end reels. In fact, some of the higher priced reels have the same guts as their lower end cousins - not always, but the higher price is often due to a higher dealer margin. If you're good at reel tuning, well, that's part of the total package that some builders offer. So tune away.

................

Remember this isn't just about competition - it's about having fun and learning some things. I suspect that outside of the actual contest there will be a lot of builders swapping reels and trying things just out of curiosity.

............

Tim,

You'd be outside the 6 feet, 6 inch length limit with that rod and you wouldn't be able to cast it that far without hitting one of the downtown buildings anyway.

.............

Great fun if kept in the proper atmosphere! My money will not be on the engineers or scientists that have argued their technical points with such great dexterity here on this forum. The man or woman who really knows the most about fishing rod building dynamics is apt to be a person you would never have thought of!

I am intrigued by this competition, but for perhaps different reasons than most.
I have long been aware that in order to gain something in this universe, something must be given up. It isn’t fair, I know, but that seems to be the way things work.
If I build a rod for Swordfish and giant Bluefin Tuna, I am going to give up a very light rod. Additionally, this rod would be no fun at all on an Atlantic Sailfish or a New England Brook Trout.
A long noodle rod for catching steelhead and 40 lb salmon on 2 lb test mono will allow me to catch those hard-fighting salmonoids on gossamer thread, but I sacrifice the casting accuracy of a fast-action tip, as well as the ability to put the brakes on a speeding fish in a hurry.
I am curious: what attributes would likely be lost when casting distance is the only metric to be measured? Would such a rod be much good for anything other than distance casting contests?

Mr. Stevens, I have spoken with my son (the Aerospace Engineer). He believes he can design a 3/8 oz, micro-processor controlled lure with 3 fins and a gps guidance system. Coupled with a tiny rocket motor, the sharp crack heard just beyond the tip-top would not be the rod breaking, but the lure breaking. Breaking the sound barrier. From High Point, I should be able to program my favorite snapper reef off Cape Canaveral and have the lure fly directly to it.
I am envisioning a super-sized Alvey side cast reel fitted with a telephone cable spool to hold the necessary line. I am going to hang this reel on a certain 6', 10 wt. fly rod, and immediately dispel any question about said rod’s ability to cast any distance with any measure of accuracy. Better bring whatever it is you use to self medicate. Better still, I’ll buy you a drink after the competition.

Part of the fun would be the info swap that took place after all is said and done.....swapping your reel for mine for a few test casts-technique comparisons, etc.

Gary,

Unusual reel position and the lack of sufficient guides for proper stress distribution are the two main compromises made by most who build rods strictly for casting competitions. The rods that win the major competitions do not generally make extremely good fishing rods in terms of comfort and fishing fighting.

We may see a few such rods if we proceed with this, but I think most guys will bring the sort of rods that they build for fishermen to actually use out on the water. You can always compare your distance to that of folks who are building similarly practical rods if you want. Again, we only have so much room and so much time. The idea will be to keep things fun and informative. The reason why I would rather not have any sort of cash or anything so tremendous in terms of the winner's award is so we can focus more on learning and less on unusual contraptions that folks simply hungry for a large prize might be tempted to bring.

................

I may go just to see the rods!!
Kyle Robinson

Gene has carefully thought this out. I will be anxiously awaiting his entry. I can only imagine the technical superiority his rod will possess. If he cannot make it I do hope he will build a rod and send it along for someone there to cast. Reading his posts over many months now has really got me curious about how much better his rods must perform than most. One nice thing about doing something like this is that after hearing people "talk the talk" we can now see if they can "walk the walk".

Richard Kuhne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gene has carefully thought this out. I will be
> anxiously awaiting his entry. I can only imagine
> the technical superiority his rod will possess. If
> he cannot make it I do hope he will build a rod
> and send it along for someone there to cast.
> Reading his posts over many months now has really
> got me curious about how much better his rods must
> perform than most. One nice thing about doing
> something like this is that after hearing people
> "talk the talk" we can now see if they can "walk
> the walk".

Wow.....shot's fired.....sounds like someone has a complex.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

The intent of the contest is to have fun and learn from each other. It is impossible to host an event that will suit every person in every way. That can't be done. There is no way to design a contest that would seek to find the "best fishing rod" as such things are far too subjective. There is a limited number of things you can measure in terms of "best" but one of those which you can measure is casting distance. These are popular contests held around the world because they're interactive and require the participation of the builder or fisherman. Few people would bother with a "lightest rod" contest, or a "best balanced rod" contest. There is a limit to what we can do or what folks would bother with. We can set certain criteria and we can measure casting distance. It will require a good level of rod building knowledge along with intelligent matching of a reel and some decent casting ability. So this is what we'll do.

Those who don't like such a contest are not forced to enter. Those who don't have confidence in their technical convictions are not forced to enter. Those who feel casting distance is not their particular area of expertise are also not forced to enter.

Those builders who enjoy the company of other rod builders and would like to spend a couple hours casting on Friday afternoon prior to the Expo are encouraged to build a fishing rod this winter, match it with the reel of their choice and come out and have some fun. That would be the point of doing this - to have fun and learn some things from each other.

.......................

You can call it a shot, I call it a matter of genuine interest and curiosity. Do you automatically assume that an engineer can build a rod that will outcast or outfish a rod built by an electrician? Would you assume that a rod built by a University Physics Professor will necessarily outcast, outfish, or somehow outdo a rod built by a plumber? Is a scientist guaranteed to build a better rod than a grocery store clerk or truck driver? I think Ken's original idea sprang from questioning this same type of notion.

What I am afraid of in terms of this contest is that many of the people who are so sure of themselves and the information they post will NOT enter and they will not send a rod for someone else to cast. I think that would be a shame. I would like to see people from all walks of life involved.

As a contractor I work with a large number and variety of people. Some of the most brilliant and clever people I have employed or contracted with have no professional title and put on no airs. But I have found some of them to be almost unbelievably creative and to have a great understanding of how things work. This is the sort of person I believe would win such a contest and they will probably have come up with some tweak or idea that others of us never thought about.

I am sure there will be some outstanding casters there. If a guy builds a nice rod but does not feel he can physically match up with the casting skill of another, I feel sure one of the better casters would be happy to give your rod a try and see what they can do with it. I would assume there will be a lot of casting going on both within the contest and outside of it. That is the nature of rod builders and fishermen any time they find themselves with a bunch of rods, a nice place to cast, and some time on their hands.

Richard Kuhne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can call it a shot, I call it a matter of
> genuine interest and curiosity.

Ok, I'll call it a shot. I have found it best to not assume anything about someone from reading posts on an internet board. I think it's funny that Eugene's interest in applying his engineering background to rodbuilding has you in such a tizzy....to the point where you automatically assume his rod will be crap....Your right about one thing....we will only know when the rods show up in HP. Being a dumb firefighter I would not venture to assume that any particular professional background would automatically mean you will build a better rod....If that was the case I would never sell one.

It will be fun to cast a bunch of rods though....boy...I really hope all of the artistic types arent afraid of a function contest......hehe........

(by the way, that is a joke for all of you sensitive types).

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Richard,
I have neither the time, the patience or the tolerance of my fellow man to attend your little shin-dig.
I would have enjoyed the competition win or lose. At my age I don't need to prove anything to anybody , except myself. I've lost and learned from better.

You can consider this as a concession.

I do have a 5-1/2 foot ultralite that I could send you. I've cast it over 120' but seldom do I cast spinning rods your probably much more proficient. It was built for a fisherman that wanted a trout rod for casting 1/16 to 1/8 ounce spinners and jigs on 2# test, but he turned out to be a fisherman when it came time for the money to change hands.
Please give your mailing address

Had I entered this would have been what I would offered in the hands of somebody that casts spinning rods much more often then I.

Cabela's S662 6'6" IM-7 1-piece fast light blank
4-7/8" rear grip
Woven graphite reel seat
2-5/8 fore grip
4 guides plus tip top
American Tackle 30mm GBSF; American Tackle 20mm GBSF; Recoil 16mm spinning guide; Recoil 12mm spinning guide
Tip top H&H fly top std loop, H&H fly top large loop, Recoil fly top std loop, Recoil fly top large loop.
(Tip top to be evaluated based on casting results) no tip top wrap
Blank spined; guides on spine.
Guide location from tip 8.5 ; 19.1 ; 32.5 ; 49.5
Reel US Reel Supercaster 230XL
Rear foot shimmed and hood reworked based on casting.

Maybe I'm way off. You be the judge and tell me but you'd have to build and test cast it to "Walk the Walk"

On the other hand if you're in Missouri, I could show you a few trout streams that you could use to impress me with your fishing prowess.

Eugene Moore



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 01:14AM by Eugene Moore.

Fascinating thread. Wish I could be there. I would think that if one was truly going to go for maximum distance alone as a criteria, the rod may not be a truly practical fishing tool but I could be wrong. Wish I could be there. Sure sounds like a load of fun.

Mo

I cannot find anywhere that I said that anyone's rod, including Eugene's would be "a piece of crap." Please do not put words in my mouth, Scott. You have made an assumption that is not true. I did not say any such thing. I was certain that Eugene would neither attend or enter a rod, though and I did say that it would be wrong to assume anything about a person's ability to build a rod based on his or her education or work background. If Eugene and yourself were to both enter the contest and I was asked to make a side bet, I would not bet on Eugene simply because of his posts here. Talking and walking are two different things. At least we agree on that.

As far as Eugene's generous offer to send a rod, I would think that 120' would fail to be competitive. What else do you have? I would be more than happy to bring one of your rods to the contest and either cast it or have someone else cast it. But I believe it will have to push 150' or more to be competitive. If you have something that will go at least that far or more I will be happy to hand carry it to the show for you.

I am going to buy one of the blanks you mention and set it up exactly as you outline. I am very interested in how it will cast compared to that normally built by this contractor. I already have that reel. How thick should the shims under the rear of the foot be?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2009 05:37AM by Richard Kuhne.

Tom,
I would be very interested in the posting of the final results.
Say the top three rods from each class.
Build specification including :

Builders Name
Caster Name
Distance Cast
Blank selection
Reel selection
Reel location
Guide size type and location
Tip Top size and type

I would prefer this be posted on the public forum so the data is available for analysis and interpretation by all concerned. This can open many discussions based on the individual merits of each rod.

Gene Moore

Eugene, I wanted to send you an email but your address is hidden. I'd appreciate it if you would drop me a note so I can reply to you. It's not about this thread, but the 6' 10 wt. fly rod I am building. Please use <[email protected]>
-Gary

Can I wait untill this winter and get a 50 mph wind behind me? Just joking here this sounds like a good idea if the test parameters can be maintained

Gene,

I think that's a great idea and will certainly do it, both in the magazine and here. The idea will be to present the total combinations used by the winning contestants - reel, blank model, handle length, guide type, placement, etc. As much data as possible to provide. The readers can decide for themselves what aspect or combination of aspects made the winning difference.

..............