I would like to make a proposal. Hear me out. So many posts are made here by obviously very intelligent people. Much smarter than me. But I sometimes wonder just how well they apply their engineering or math backgrounds to this thing we call rod building. I would think we could assume that these people should be able to build a superior rod. Right?

This is not a knock on anybody. I would just like to see the performance of the rods made by those with superior engineering or mathematical knowledge. In other words, I want to see what happens when the “rubber meets the road.”

My proposal is that on Friday during the dealer set up time at the Rod Expo a few of us meet in the Showplace parking lot and have a competition! I am going to throw out some suggestions for rules or guidelines. I realize that we can’t all use the same exact blank and everything else so this will be more of a “competition” than a “test.” I think it would be fun.


Casting distance competition

Line at least .010 diameter
Maximum rod length - 6’6”
Any type, size or style of guides allowed
Any handle length
Maximum casting weight 3/8th ounce.

Mono class and Braid catagories

Separate categories for spinning and casting reels. Any make or model reel you wish to use.

You cast your own or have someone you consider a better caster cast it for you. Five casts per rod.


The winning rods will win due to a lot of factors, not just any one thing like guides or line. But I want to see what a highly knowledgeable person can do in regard to a host of variables to make a rod that performs better than a simple rod builder like me. I would assume the engineers and mathematicians will win but I’m not so sure..................

I would to watch such a thing. I think it would expose a lot of the drivel you read here and elsewhere and return some builders to this forum with much more credibility and others with, well, less.

Understanding that this is indeed a competion with a host of variables and not any sort of test, I sort of like the idea. It might be fun for guys to mess around with a rod or rods over the next few months and see what they can come up with. It could result in a good many people learning an awful lot about guide set ups as far as casting is concerning.

If you did want to take the blank out of the equation for the most part, you could specify a particular make and model blank that had to be used. Not a bad idea, but I’m not sure how you would arrive at which model to use. One blank maker would be very happy to sell a batch of blanks, among several other companies that wouldn’t be quite as happy that their product wasn’t chosen. Same thing with line make and size. That would reduce the variables to things like guide weight, guide set up, handle length, etc., - the stuff determined by the rod builder. But then we move back towards a test and it might be more important to just keep things fun and allow a host of variables to be involved.

I think the criteria is reasonable and categories fair. (I assume your length measurement is 6 feet, 6 inches, maximum?)

I can arrange to have a portion of the ShowPlace lot clear for Friday afternoon. A casting lane could be set up with tape or pylons. Perhaps 10 or 15 feet wide - outside of that and the cast is disqualified. I would be happy to provide the line and the casting plugs.

This could easily get out of control if a couple hundred guys showed up all wanting to make their 5 casts - particularly if they want to do it in each category. So a few more guidelines would have to be put into place. Perhaps a 2 category limit with 1 rod per category. Give each contestant 2 practice tosses and then 5 casts with the best of the 5 recorded.

Some sort of RSVP might be in order because if I mention this in RodMaker I fear that we would indeed have 200 guys all wanting to be in the contest. One thing that popped into my mind was that there should be a minimum distance involved - a means of qualifying someone for their 5 casts. I would think that anyone that can’t make 125 feet minimum with the criteria outlined in any of those categories would not be competitive.

I don't mind helping out and providing the space, but someone else will have to head things up.

....................

Ken - I think the guy with the supertuned baitcasting reel and braid will win with a 6' rod.

Richard - What is your criteria for "drivel"? How do you assess and measure?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2009 04:55PM by Alex Dziengielewski.

are you talking spinning, casting or spincasting outfits?

I believe he said separate categories for spinning and casting, and for braid and mono. I suppose spincasting could be added as well.

We could toss them all in the same class, but at that casting weight I think spinning outfits might be at a decided disadvantage against the other two.

..................

Thanks Tom
Guess I need to work on my reading comprehension skills

Drivel --- nonsense. I assess and measure based on results.

I had a local rod builder explain to me all the mechanics of casting and why his rods were superior to what I was building. I am just a building contractor, he is an engineer. We ended up fishing together a few months after that in a local tournament. When he cast his line sang like a barking dog and he could not get even decent distance on targets that really were not very far away. I had to hold back to keep from overthrowing them. He was straining to reach them. We are not talking about long distances. I let him try one of my rods and he had to grudgingly admit they cast much farther and more smoothly than any of his. But he also had a mathematical reason-excuse why my rods cast further on that day and was even able to mathematically explain why his rods were still superior to mine. After all, according to him you cannot argue with numbers and figures even if the results state differently.

Any open ended contest such as this with so many variables leaves the winning outfit open for much discussion - what gave it the winning advantage? Was it the particular blank? The reel? The line used? The guide set up? So again, unless we’re willing to set very stringent criteria and specify that a certain blank, reel, etc., be used we simply have a fun contest, not any sort of test to conclude that any certain component is superior to another.

But I think that’s okay - as soon as we start eliminating variables we begin forcing guys to spend money on specific blanks, reels, etc. Those sort of tests can be done at your home shop. I’d prefer to keep this open to a wide variety of all around performance tweaks which can include the blank, the reel, the guides, etc. Let’s see who can come up with the greatest number of small performance enhancements that combine to toss the plug the farthest.

In order to keep the classes fair, I think that casting outfits should compete only against casting outfits with spinning outfits competing only against spinning outfits. I think there should be different categories for mono and for braid. This is what I believe Ken proposed above.

The only variable I’d like to eliminate would be the line. I think we should specify a particular brand and size mono and a particular brand and size braid. It would be a small expense for contestants to purchase the required line to test their outfits at home with. On contest day, I’ll provide the line for everyone to spool with.

There is a limit to the ShowPlace parking area. If we allow rods much longer than 6 feet 6 inches we may be throwing into the street. That would be frowned upon. So that length would be about the maximum we could allow. Handle length and style would be up to the individual.

If you can’t make the show, build your best rod and send it with a buddy you might know that is planning to attend. If it fails to win, blame it on his personal lack of casting ability.

I would need a couple guys willing to stand outside and record the distances that afternoon. I will donate a 2-day Expo pass to the winner of each category. I suspect other prizes might soon be offered.

I know not everybody will be there on Friday. But for those who come in a bit early and are looking for something to do Friday afternoon, this could be an enjoyable, informal way to spend the afternoon prior to the RodMaker Reception that evening. Everybody at the Expo is friendly and helpful and thus even in such a competition I suspect the emphasis would focus more on learning and less about taking the top prize.

I find this very interesting and would like to be a part of such a contest. With that said 90% of the rods I build wouldn't even notice a 3/8 oz. weight. For the heavy rod builders a 3 or 4 oz. weight would be nice and then------LETS GET IT ON!!!

Awesome idea that should be followed through.

At least we have the four months it is going to take to set the parameters. :P

Riley Rods-Hard Core Grips to Go!-----Carbon Fiber - Composite Grip Store-----Capt Mike's Blog-----No Excuses Fishing Charters

Custom builders should consider adopting the applicable sections of the existing Olympic Rules for casting competetion -

I request that Steve Rejeff and his Terminator fly rod to be officially banned from any High Point Event competetion!

Maybe the US Olympic Committe would fund the event and build adequate heated and sheltered bleachers for all spectators! The 40 knot 28 degree wind in the parking lot last year impacted previous contestants performance at critical times.

Will there be a required performance enhancing drug test for all entrants?

Is there any possibility of a Calcutta Pool?

Don't forget to add a rule limiting the weight of black powder preload and propuslion guidance system in the lure.

Does anyone know where you can beat the $1,300 contract price for a Teflon FR20 Laser Alignment and diamond lapping for all internal parts of a Revo Premier bait casting reel?

If you think I am joking about all this click on the link listed below:

Fun reading for sure!

There are existing official rules for even casting competition! Hoodathunkit! Click on:
.
[www.sfas.net]

Con Iv In Aw Redy!

By the way, Steve just set a new single handed fly rod record, besting the record he had set some years ago.

.............

Looks like I'll be borrowing a calais DC for the weekend.....who needs a rod with that thing.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Why not make it a little more even. fair priced reels of the same so every one can afford them. Then blanks of the same. This way handles and guides and set ups can be of the builders choice.

Bill - willierods.com

Why not do as another Gentelman and I did last year.
Using the same reel switching it from one rod to the other with out any adjustments permitted to the braking and casting tension knobs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2009 05:41PM by Steve Gardner.

If we specify a particular blank then one company sees a bit of sales while the others are left out. which one should get the business? If we specify one particular reel, then most folks will have to go out and buy reels that they might otherwise not care for nor use ever again. If we provide the reel for the contest, then guys would still have to obtain that same reel for their at home tests.

We could get very scientific and do some diehard testing by eliminating all but certain variables, but this would require criteria that we won't have time for and would take a lot of the fun out of the thing. There is a limit to what we can do in a couple hours in a parking lot.

As Ken mentioned in his opening post, this isn't going to be a test of any particular aspect of a custom rod, but rather a contest among builders to see who is the most adept at selecting the best blank and best reel and incorporating good guide selection and placement to provide the best casting performance. If we do this I'd like to keep it as fun and inexpensive for everyone as possible.

..................

Yea, but then builders with more money can get more expensive reels with more bearings that will cast longer and farther. Money wins.

Good idea of changing reels. Using the same one on different builds.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2009 11:03AM by bill boettcher.

Tom
Make good sense.

Bill
If I decided to participate and any one thinks I have an advantage due to the reel. They are welcome to borrow what I use. Maybe others could (if they choose) make the same concession thereby eliminating the hypothetical "Money" the thing

Will you allow the use of centerpin reels in the competition ?
If so what class ?
Must the rod be fishable ?
If so define that term.
Any blank imaginable within length specifications ?
There are a lot of creative people in the world. All are capable of pushing the boundary within an interpreted set of rules.
Does the reel have to be attached to the rod ?
Must the reel be capable of retrieving line ?
Must the reel be cast or are other means permissible ?
Define cast ?
Can explosives be employed similar to a nail gun and cartridge ?
These are just a few examples of rule interpretation.
Until you define the specification to determine what denotes "cheating" this is an idea founded on poor soil.
You may not like the winning rod or be capable of utilizing it in a practical sense.
It's just built for casting distances.
You'll need a bigger building.