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Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Gary Henderson (---.mco.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 07:54AM

I need to pick up a guide set for a fly rod today, and I'm not sure the size I need. Here's the build:

Rod is 6' long and will be using 10 wt. line. It is built on a spinning blank.

I want to use single-foot guides. I'll use Rich Forhan's locking wrap to make sure they are secure. But what ring size(s) should I be looking at for 10 wt. line?

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 07:59AM

I use REC recoil s/f heavy wire #4's on my #10 fly rods. Some would say you should go with #5's - but I would reserve those for a #11 rod.
Herb

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:41AM

Use the smallest guides that will pass your required connections. Is your line a shooting head? Are there any loop to loop connections that you need to pass?

................

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Gary Henderson (---.mco.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:42AM

Tom-I'm not sure. He just said a 6' Fly rod for #10 line.

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:52AM

MIght be a good idea to find out.

.............

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:58AM

? 10 wt rod or 10# tippet ?

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Adam Harbuck (---.shv.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 04:44PM

6 FOOT rod for a 10 weight? That's not what i consider a fly rod. Has anybody on here cast anything even close? I have cast a 71/2ft #8, but that is no where close to a 6ft #10.

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2009 05:09PM

Any rod will cast any line - at some distance.

..........

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 06:05PM

A 6ft 10wt is close to being suitable for a broom handle. lol

Going to be very tough to load it properly!

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Eugene Moore (---.244.212.104.Dial1.StLouis1.Level3.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 06:15PM

My guess. Close quarter nastys. Not delicate. Big flys, big fish, tight quarters.
If my guess is correct use all double foot guides.
7 guide total plus tip top
Tip top H&H large (Maybe standard if connection size is confirmed)
Recoil #3 double foot titanium heavy wire (2 reqd)
H&H #4 double foot hard chrome (3 reqd)
H&H #10 double foot stripper guide (1 reqd)
H&H #12 double foot stripper guide (1 reqd)
Give me your rod specs butt dia, tip dia, graphite type and I'll send you placement.

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 07:40PM

Poor Gary! This is kinda like going to the doctor with a case of athletes foot and ending up being diagnosed by brain surgeons! I am glad this post was made on a Thursday! If this stays on the board on Friday it may turn into a vertical jigging episode for the conquering and capture of Jaws! Remember the first law of the IGFA standards committee which governs fly rods (for record submission purposes) - for it to be considered a fly rod it must conform to acceptable standards. I for one wold love to talk directly to the fisherman who requested this custom commission! This has the possibility of turning into a one of a kind out of the box project - or one wild goose chase!

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:09PM

You only need 2 or 3 sizes total. Going through every size just because they're offered isn't buying you anything. Settle on a stripping guide, running guides and perhaps one size in-between those two.

............

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Ted Morgan (---.tpgi.com.au)
Date: September 03, 2009 08:24PM

Single foot fly guides on the tip will be more than strong enough for that setup. The rod blank will thank you for the lighter weight than double foots all the way out. Smallest size needed to pass the connections, stripper and one in between. 10 wt short range, nasty stuff, sounds like a snook and poon bush/dock fluff rod, big flies, short and nasty like Eugene suggested, but as I mentioned, I'd lighten up the guides.

No wild goose chase there, just a 6 ft bush/dock extractor, on a powerful, faster taper spinning blank. Idea is to deliver large flies at short range quite accurately, and it probably won't be with a shooting head, maybe just a fly line with an aggressive head. More of those kinda rods around than you think.....

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Gary Henderson (---.mco.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 03, 2009 10:13PM

OK...I had 4 possible blanks in stock from which to choose. I took them all to Mudhole and let Todd have a look. For those of you who don't know, Todd used to design blanks for Lamiglas.) We settled on the best blank of the ones I had brought.

We also decided on Fuji Alconite guides: BMNAG 20J, 16J, 12J and 10J Med. heavy casting guides, and 1 BLAG 8J and 3 BLAG 7J alconite single foot guides.

The rod is going to be used from a flats boat to cast short distances to docks and under overhanging mangroves for big snook, redfish, and tarpon to perhaps 50 lbs. It is going to be important to move the fish away from the cover in a hurry. He will be tossing weight forward 10 Wt. fly line...not sure about tippet size.

Understand: I am giving my client exactly what he wants. It isn't what I would build for myself.

A few months ago I posted the question here as to what blank I should be looking at. The general consensus was a spinning or casting blank.

A broomstick? You bet. Enough backbone to move the fish away from the cover of roots or pilings? Let's hope so. And the funny thing is, if this rod works the way this guide expects it will, addressing a very narrow and specific application, he expects his brethren will be wanting the same rod for their boats.

I thank you all for the input. And I believe I would rather have a brain surgeon diagnose my athlete's foot than a podiatrist diagnose a brain tumor :-)

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Bill Stevens (---.br.br.cox.net)
Date: September 04, 2009 08:17AM

Touche!

What kind of a reel will go on this stick? The original post implied this build would be for a fly rod using a fly reel set up with 10 wt line. If you do end up with a large fly reel on a six foot blank with eight casting guides it certainly will be a unique set up. The guide set Todd reccommended is normally considered for use with spinning reels. The heavy cover, close in work, big fish and blanks used as extraction devices are common in my world - the words six foot fly rod and 10 wt line# bouncing in my head required a dose of self medication! If you set this up with a large fly reel, six inches from the center of the seat to the rear of the butt, proper foregrip to handle the large fish say 10 inches, placement of the first guide far enough out for hand clearance - you will be faced with using seven guides in 2.5 feet of length. This sounds like one on those real out of the box challenges. I sure would be interested in more detail of how you pull this off.

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: mike harris (---.borgwarner.com)
Date: September 04, 2009 08:27AM

It sure seems like it would be more efficient to just throw a Fluke on a spinning rod to do the same thing. Is this a case of trying to set records for specific tackle, or just another case of someone wanting to feel superior to the rest of us because he used a “Fly Rod”?

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 04, 2009 08:31AM

You don't need that many guide sizes. 3 is enough and will work as well or better than if you use more. It will provide a straighter line path than a set up with multiple guide sizes.

.................

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Gary Henderson (---.mco.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 04, 2009 08:52AM

The client is a flats guide who fishes 275+ days/year. Some of his clients are insistent on using a fly rod in the situation described above. He, like most of us. will usually give the customer what he wants if telling him what he needs fails to convince.

Bill, the grip will be 7" long. I have huge hands, and that would work for me. There will be 1" of cork below the reel seat as well, and the reel seat will be down-locking. Balance is, I am sure, going to be an issue. I'm not sure what he plans to hang on this for a fly reel.

We commonly see very big snook as well as reds exceeding 40 lbs. Tarpon are in the area all year, and while they are mostly in the 10-40 lb range in the Indian River Lagoon, bigger ones are caught.

I'll make sure I get some video of the rod in use.

Safe weekend to all...drive carefully. It's dumb out there.

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Phil Erickson (---.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
Date: September 04, 2009 10:23PM

Nasty comment re "feeling superior" because he wants a fly rod. Maybe a little paranoid!

There are many of us the prefer fly rods over hardware, and not because we want to feel anything in relationship to others, just our personal preference!

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Re: Guides for a specialty fly rod
Posted by: Gary Henderson (---.mco.bellsouth.net)
Date: September 05, 2009 11:39AM

I have to tell you, it is the diversity of both demonstrable skill and biased opinion that causes me to really love this forum. So much, in fact, that I have decided to make the 600 mile drive to High Point in February.
Fishing has been a long (and not yet over) journey for me. My father began taking me fishing when I was two years old. I had a short cane pole with heavy green line, a bobber and a hook baited with a worm. I occasionally look at the home movies he took and I am reminded that ultimately the tools are less important than the experience.
When I wanted to go fishing on opening day of Connecticut trout season with him, (I was about 6), he told me I needed to first learn to cast accurately. He took a galvanized pail, set it down in the back yard, marked 3 different spots on the grass with lime, and told me that when I could cast a practice plug into the pail from each position, he would take me for the season opener. My "tool" was a solid glass spinning rod, early (1957 or so) mono line, a clunker of a spinning reel, and determination. After 3 weeks, I could drop the plug into the bucket every time. Years later he told me he couldn't have one that to save his life.
Before he passed away, he told me it was his belief that kids who had a strong connection with the outdoors would be less likely to get in trouble with drugs, alcohol or the law. Maybe not scientific, but a thought worth pursuing. My son got his first fishing rod at age 2, caught his first 8 lb + brown trout at age 4, fishes and hunts in his spare time, and graduated Magna cum Laude at age 21 this year as an aerospace engineer. His first job is paying more than any job I ever had.
My dad hated fly fishing (he had a talent for hooking himself behind his ear during a cast), never fished salt water, and thought there was no sport on hunting a dumb animal with a rifle. Strong opinions. I hunt, love saltwater fishing, toss a fly every now and again, and enjoy being outsmarted by deer and fish with brains the size of a pea.
I have my opinions about building rods: I hate the look of split grip handles, think marbling is tacky, find Tom Kirkman's method of installing an EVA grip on a rod impossible to make work for me, and think checkerboard cork work looks like it belongs on a pool cue more than a fishing rod. I love the weaving done by Billy, Jim and others, and don't care if it is too time consuming to be cost effective. Sometimes art needs to be done for the sake of art. I believe Loomis blanks are overpriced (this should start some arguments), and I believe that Russ Miller's wooden hand-turned reel seats and handles are stunningly beautiful. I would gladly sacrifice light weight for the beauty of one of those grips.
There are people here who measure their output in days per rod, and those who use rods per day as the metric. Black on black does it for some, and for others, unless a rod looks like a 1969 psychedelic mushroom trip it is just too plain to bother with. I enjoy ALL of you, and have learned something from most who post here. (Some of what I have learned is how much there is to learn, and how little time there is in which to learn it.)
So...as I contemplate a rod built to maximize casting distance at the possible expense of all the other desirable characteristics a fishing rod should possess (the Friday casting distance contest at the Expo beckons me), I am building a 6', 10 wt. stump extractor fly rod and wonder just how far Joan Salvato Wulff and Steve Steve Rejeff could cast with that 6' rod...heck, I have seen Joan cast a fly line and leader farther with NO ROD AT ALL than I can cast with an 8' rod.
Thank you all...your opinions, experiences, mis-steps and masterpieces are truly an inspiration. I am looking forward to meeting so many of you in February.

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