The 27x formula has worked for me regarding placement of the choking guide. Because of the limited flex in the lower section of most rods, it seems apparent that there should be a formula for the placement of the gathering (largest) guide. The formula would have to be a function of the guide size, height and reel diameter. I wonder if anyone would be willing to work with this and report back. I have an idea but need to test it out further before sharing. Your thoughts?

Using the 27X choker guide location, the line path between there and the reel should locate the butt guide for you and do so with pretty good results if you stay within the recommended distance range for various rod types.

I didn't develop anything for butt guide placement because it seemed redundant - it's almost automatically located with the NGC 27X method


............

Great, Tom! That is where I was going, so you confirmed my experiment!

If you, or anyone else, wanted to come up with something specifically for the butt guide location, you could simply take stock of all the measurements of your current butt guide locations that you know to work well and figure some sort of average.

Depending on the height and ring size of the guide, the optimum location from the reel will vary. This is what makes such a formula a bit hard to arrive at. But it could certainly be done.

............

Scott,
You have a straight ratio.
change of height per change of distance
the difference between the reel height and choker height per distance from reel to choker.
Straight line slope distance.

Gene

Yes, relatively simple.

Problem comes when you want smaller ring size,but need taller guides so you are forced to accomodate one of the three below:

1. larger guides than you want.
2. wrong height guides.
3. guide further from the reel than desired. (i.e. more than 22 inches....)

Mo

The M guides will not fit your needs ??

Bill - willierods.com

Bill.

Nope. I'm thinking of making my own. Problem is time as always....:)

Actually the M is only very lightly ttaller than the Fuji TATSG that I favor. I want something much taller - at least 50% taller.

Mo

Mo,
What do you use for ring sizes? 1/2 diameter of the spool? I've been going smaller and using M's. I don't have much experience with spinning set ups, but since my kids (5 & 7) have been fishing soooo much with me lately I've been building them a few each. Problem is, I don't have anything to compare my NGC/micro builds against. It is kind of anti-climatic starting out with such good guidance

Steven,

Well, Tom Kirkman really has done an absolutely INCREDIBLE service to the rodbuilding community. (Along with all the contributors he has been able to recruit.) I don't actually know of anyone who have done the same in another industry and I have many a hobby indeed, most of which are currently dormant due to time. So yes, it really allows one to start off at the right foot.

Anyway, I digress. I've been using 1/2 diameter but feel quite strongly that I don't need that large a guide for the kind of lines we use.

Mo

Your not kidding!!!!!!!!!!! I actually kind of look forward to comin to work so I can get on this site and see whats up. I actually cant say I look fwd to coming to work......I wish I had a comp at home......... You should have seen what I was producing before I found this place. I would hide behind the "I just want it functional" excuse!!!!!!!!!! and it was hardly even that; just BARELY functional...........

Mo,

Using a butt guide with a ring that is at least 1/2 the diameter of the reel spool was a very general rule of thumb which I put in the book I wrote for Amato Publications. It was meant to be something that would provide good results for the greatest variety of reels and lines expected to be encountered by a wide range of fishermen. But it is not ironclad and was never intended to be absolutely correct for each specific line type. It works with about all of them, but isn't necessarily optimum for any specific one. Remember that the smaller diameter and more supple the line, the smaller the ring you can get by with. Conversely, with larger diameter and more stiff line, a larger ring is usually required. Braid almost never requires a very large ring.



.................

I use lighter lines and find that I do not need the larger butt guide on the ultralite rods I like. I Find the larger guides are in the way most of the time for me. Some times their is no one answer for all rods only a guide to start with. I think you need to use your experiance and judgement in matters like this as what work great for me may not be what somebody else wants or may not work for him.

Edwin Kime

Steven: check out Dell.

Bill - willierods.com

Tom, yes, I understood that but thought I'd note it here for others. The more flexible the line, the smaller the butt guide can be, still taking into account of course the size of the spool.

Mo