I have been searching through the forum here and I can't seem to find an answer to a guide wrap finish question that I have.

I hear folks like to finish them with high build, or low build, or even permagloss. Some like a single coat all the way up to multiple coats of each type of finish. I recently tried to use some TM Light build and was not happy with the product, entirely my fault too, I'm what you would call a bad finisher(at least for now). so I went with 2 coats of low build and it did not yield the results I wanted, so I took the 400 grit paper and took it down, and put some flex coat high build and it looks great now. My question, what's the science behind this, one coat two coats, 3 coats, what is best for holding everything in place? I figure if you put one coat on, using a spatula, the second(and any additional) coat is merely for asthetics?

Andrew,

If I may offer some input. I take pride in my finishing so I may be of some help. I use Flex coat brushes to apply my finishes. (Purple - 1/8")

Spatulas are for cooking and credit cards are for going in debt. Use the brushes once and throw them away. Don't clean them and be penny wise and pound foolish.

I have used FlexCoat, Threadmaster and American Tackle finishes, all Hi Build and all three gave me the same results - a beautiful finish. However, Am. Tackle was the only finish that allows me the longest time to apply the finish. You can't rush High Quality!! There is no finish that I have used that will give a perfect finish in ONE coat - at least not the way I apply it!

The first coat should seal the thread and lay a good foundation for the second, which in most cases goes on much smoother that the first as all of the voids have been filled. Remove specks and any other "debris" that has found its way onto the finish with a cleaned razor blade - stay away from sandpaper beacuse if you get into the threads, you really have a mess. Continue applying the epoxy until the finish is glassy and all threads are covered - then you can stop. It may take 2 or it may take 4, even with hi-build.

With hi-build, it you want a thin coat, put it on immediately after mixing.

Hope this helps

Charlie
tightlinerods@aol.com

andrew, it may help to elaborate what you meant by "it did not yield the results i wanted"..

i use TM regular and have just begun using TM lite.. i find that with the lite, even after 2 coats or probably 3 (though i never tried more than 2), i can still see the thread's surface and the finish is not glossy smooth... i guess it's due to the viscosity of the finish, since it is more watery, it holds much less finish as compared to regular before it starts to sag, so i will have to do 2 or more coats..

I have swopped my process to begin with one coat of regular, and if there is any requirement to do a second coat, i will use TM lite..

i'm not a good finisher.. having been building my own rods for a number of years and never having done a nice job on finishing... i've 'recently' discovered how to get it done relatively nice (from my point of view) and am sticking to this method.. however, i do read that a number of people can get the job done nicely in a single coat, and for others, it takes 2 or 3 coats..

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

If you'll pay attention to the article in the upcoming issue of RodMaker, you'll learn how to apply perfect finish to any wrap in under 30 seconds. Finishing is the easiest part of custom rod building - but you have to relax and let the finish do what it knows how to do.

If the time it took you to read this, you could have applied finish to a guide wrap and achieved perfect results.

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The thread secures the guide and the epoxy secures the thread and protects it from abrasion. You only need enough epoxy to secure and protect the thread. A smooth finish ensures you've got the threads completely covered. For high use rods you may want a thicker coat. Anything more than what you need is simply asthetic; and sometimes not so asthetic.

i am greatly looking forward to the article coming up. Im sure there will be many tips to be had from it. I know for myself, my best results have come by not messing with the finish. I just try to get it on the rod as quickly as i can and leave it alone. there is always the temptation to "play" with it, but i find if i apply it and walk away and let it turn it works well for me.

Sorry that I did not elaborate on the results that I got from the TM Lite. I prepped the rod with a 0000 grey pad where the guides were to be set, then went after it with alcohol to clean it up. Wrapped the guides on like normal. I put some 1/4" masking tape ~1/8" from the wrap to act as a block. I mixed the product(even measured with syringes) and applied it with the spatula while rotating the rod by hand, moving the spatula back and forth like I was spreading it like butter on toast. As soon as I had a wet appearance over the wrap, I let it be and went to the next one, took me less than 90 seconds per guide. After I was done, I rotated it by hand 180 degrees every so often when it got heavy on the bottom, if it was more visible than not, I took the spatula and wiped the drip off, but this was very early in the process. after about 10 minutes of hand turning it, I removed the masking tape and worked it over with a coffee filter and alcohol to clean em up then I put it on the rod dryer. came back in an hour and most of them looked like a heavy coat of CP(except it was shinier). Second coat(24 hours later) I did the same, but it wasn't as easy to see the coverage, it all looked good except I found that the middle of the wrap was very rounded in the middle and the edge of the guide wrap had a definite step down from the thread to the blank. After letting this set for 8 hours, I hit it with some 400 grit sand paper, just to get rid of the thicker middle. I then went back to the flex coat high build and put one coat of that on and it came out looking great. I read the article in the library and was not trying to get done overly quick, but I didn't want to make the same mistake I made on my first rod and spend a bunch of time on it and need to mix up multiple batches of epoxy due to working too close to the end of the pot life.

Is there a place to purchase RodMaker magazine per issue? Or if I subscribe this week will I be sure to get the next installment that has the guide finishing article?

Thanks for all the information, this forum board is second to none!

No need to scuff blank and wipe clean before finishing. At some point you will run into a problem using alcohol AFTER preping anything. Degrease then scuff wipe off the dust. In this case though no need to do this on guide wraps.

Ok TM Lite goes on really thin if applied in the right amounts. Sounds like your first coat went on ok. Thats how it should have looked. Second coat I would guess that you applied to much with the footballing problem.

IMHO apply correct amounts and keep alcohol. sandpaper, steelwool, masking tape away from your guide wraps. I use TM Lite all the time and find I need multiple coats to get a nice level finish.

Finish doesnt "hold" the guide on its the accumulation of thread wraps. the finish is there to protect the thread. You only need enough so the thread ridges are covered. Any more than this and you adding unwanted weight.

With TM Lite on "A" thread most of the time takes me 2 coats using CP. Hope this helps

[solwaycustomcomponents.blogspot.com]

Sounds like you were doing it fine, except that maybe you got just a tad too much on your second coat. Next time, it'll be great. Remember--if your finish starts looking too thick, there's nothing wrong with taking most all of it off, letting it dry, then doing a third coat, fourth coat, if necessary. Thin coats are a lot easier to manage than the thick coats, especially with the "lite" versions of finish. Eventually, you'll get to the point where you can do everything in one or two coats every time. But, there's no need expect that of yourself when you're first learning. Finish is relatively cheap.

For what it's worth, I find that putting thin, manageable coats of a "thick" finish is way easier than trying to manage the "lite" finishes. The extra viscosity of the thicker stuff keeps it in the right place.

Like the others, I wouldn't worry about the masking tape, scuffing, alcohol, etc.

I'm sure the RM article will be a great source of information for you. It was Tom's suggestions that finally turned me into a proficient finisher. As he said, the real trick is convincing yourself to quit messing with the finish and let it do its job.

I thnk all of the above are correct. The only thing I can add is if you have too much finish, while the rod is finish use a business card and hold it to the smallest guide foot and scrape off the exceess, then work your way to the next smallest etc.

My first several rods had the same look. I now use the card trick on every wrap.


Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2009 02:07PM by Bill Eshelman.

I am not a current subscriber to the magazine either but I am interested in the article as well. If I subscribe now will I get that issue?

So if I understand correctly thread holds the guides on, the finish protects the threads, then one coat of finish should work just as good as 6 coats(hypothetically speaking).

Yes, unless your rod sees enough rough handling that 1 application of finish isn't enough to protect the thread from being cut or abraded.

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Tom - I'm assuming it is too late to subscribe to the magazine and still get this issue - Vol. 12 #4. If so, how can i get it?

Subscribe now and you'll get it.

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Thanks Tom, all taken care of.

Andrew,

i get the "rounded in the middle" effect with small guide feets.. i kinda like the effect though

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Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!

I would like to add ... read Charlie's post again AND keep all sandpaper, solvents, tapes, goops, flames and other such in the woodworking area. Finishes are easy to master IF you stick to the basics, practice consistency and be patient.

Chris:

If you are using a slow turner you will hold more of that thin finish buy speeding up the turner.
I put my thin finish on a fast turner . After all is coated I then stop it and let it drip. Then turn to a slow speed.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2009 11:39AM by bill boettcher.

Bill,

i'm using a 30rpm ac motor.. i timed the number of times my rod rotated in an min.. it was only 8 at best.. think it has something to do with the size of the fly wheel against the pulley for the drying motor.. think my 6 rpm motor fares worse..

but seriously, i like the look of rounded in the middle for small guide feets.. if it was on a CYSG30 guide, then.. that i would rather not have.. i would like to keep "footballs" off the rod..

one issue though, is the finish creeping up the guide feet at faster speeds..

-
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day..
Teach a man to fish, he'll be broke!