As Matthew stated, " It looks interesting Mike. But as you pointed out, not really feasible", I guess we'll never set foot on the moon. Let's just give up now

The bigger question might be- why? Do these guides need to be improved? Has it been decided that there is a problem with them? Where are all the reports of such problems? Surely a redesign is not in order because a half dozen people have reported something amiss, is it? What is the percentage failure rate- 1%? Less?

Mike Harris, thanks for taking the time...you nailed it! I guess I dream in colors, didn't know that...pretty colors, too. Bet they'd be expensive, but I would pay for the extra security AND potential convenience of wrapping.




Barry Kneller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bigger question might be- why? Do these guides
> need to be improved? Has it been decided that
> there is a problem with them? Where are all the
> reports of such problems? Surely a redesign is not
> in order because a half dozen people have reported
> something amiss, is it? What is the percentage
> failure rate- 1%? Less?

Sometimes products evolve not on account of inherent inferiority, but more to match the inferiority of the potential user/builder. Or the nature of fishing itself which has it's share of careless mishaps. Or the nature of time, weather, and their effect upon minimal securing materials. I don't disagree with your numbers or reasoning necessarily, just think that hypothetical Harris pic has the potential to expand the use and durabilty of a build using such components. Not idiot-proof or slop-proof, but may give an added measure of security at very little additional weight.

I'm not certain what is meant by "right sized guides" everytime I see it in print. Ring AND foot...or ring OR foot. Seems like the small ring size is fine for the purposes, it was the small, single foot that the majority of problem discourse pertains to. Can't say the additional barb would redefine "right size", but from the foot side of the issue it may broaden the definition a useful bit. Although the stated the percentage of failures were 1% or less it appears most of that was not due to the ring size, it was that the ring didn't stay where it was put.

I do not, in any way, mean to imply that the builders of any of these failures is at fault for these rare events thus far. My allusions to this are entirely speculative and future oriented due to seeing the promotion and popularity of these small guides gaining momentum. It simply looks like a new offshoot niche could be opening for additional design ideas and I wanted to hear others opinions on the subject.

Man, I do love that pic. She looks so sturdy and wrappable, just daring an idiot like me!

Greg Weaver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I guess we'll never set foot on the moon. Let's
> just give up now

Why would want to go to the moon? Ain't no fish up there.

Greg, there would have to be a large demand and 1 guy stripping 8 guides on 1 rod ain't a big demand. Take a minute and check into the cost of retooling a job, R & D work and marketing. There aren''t enough reasons for Fuji or American tackle or Batson to go to that expense.

I think some are still missing the point, this is not a design to improve retention of 3mm guides, it is to improve any single foot guide. It would be just as, if not more effective on a 30mm spinning guide, and we all know that even with a Forhan locking wrap guides do get pulled out of their wraps from time to time.

The trend with manufacturers is obviously toward lighter guides without unacceptable losses in durability regardless of the guides' size. Mikes design looks like killing 2 birds with one stone. This is not re-inventing the wheel. It is an improvement on an existing product. If this design reduces the frequency of single ft guides from 10s to 2s being pulled out, how can it be seen as anything but good? It has taken what seems like too long to make smaller, strong tip tops available-looks like we will have them soon. Someone somewhere was listening. I see it as another innovation brought to the craft by a custom builder-we know that is where they come from. These are the types of ideas that keep us a step ahead of the production builders. If we stop to rest, they will catch up and then pass us.

"When they said it could not be done-he was not listening"

Joseph
I think you touched on a very valid and over looked point
“But more to match the inferiority of the potential user/builder”

There is not a problem with the feet of the Micro guides, There not a problem with the Feet of 30mm guides. There are too many people using both with out any problems.

The problem lies in the builder/end user. So when the new guides with little front tags solves a few of the problems for some and not others or creates others, because they still continue ignore common sense.
Do we again expect the manufactures to redesign them or make the little tags longer?
Soon were right back to double ft guides. Which still by the way get yanked off rods or bent over double
With Bobby Feazel sharing that he has used 1700 of these with seven failures, myself using about half of that with out any failures. Other attesting to the same, while, at same time a few sharing that there are some failures. Several of which shared the problem being caused by user/builder error.

Mostly the problem comes from the user and some times the builder, but at the same time much of the responsibility falls on the builder for not properly educating himself or the user.

While there is still a learning curve going on with the Micro’s, there comes a point were people need to start taking or assigning responsibility for the cause. That being; the inferiority of the potential user/builder, and not expecting the manufacturers to bear the expense and burden to fix what is not a problem.

The need to educate yourself and you clientele about your product will save a lot of extra redo work.

I will be delivering an 8ft cranking rod tonight and you can bet I will take some time to educate the recipient.

I have a guide failure rate of .55% over my last 100 rods. This includes guides ripped out, rings ripped out, and guides broken off.

I build using all single foots.

I'd say that's a pretty good success ratio using existing components for a clientele who treat these rods as tools - not something need tender love and care.

I'm open to new ideas - but at some point you have to look at the numbers and assess what the value really is.

-----------------
AD

I'm a firm believer in the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it!" That said, there is nothing wrong with innovation and improvements. The Ring-Lock design comes to mind.

I would agree that there is no "problem" with the design of any of the single foot guides but a better design is very possible and I would argue, that with the stiff competition in the component market any design change that would provide a leg ahead isn't that far away as some might think.

Just my 2 cents.

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..