It doesn’t just happen with micro guides, here is how I managed to rip a BLAG 6 guide off. Make a cast with my Carolina Rig rod, partner catches a fish so I set my rod down to net partner’s fish. Pick up my rod and 3 things happen simultaneously. 1. discover that my sinker is securely wedged in rocks, 2. discover that I have 50lb braid wrapped around the second guide from the tip, 3. partner hits the trolling motor switch on high bypass. It sounded like a .22 going off when the guide popped off.

Sorry everyone but I AM AWAY FOR VACATION but I will try to get all required infor by next week when I will post under M&M 8. All i know sofar is that I have all the guides in my hand and I will try to take pictures when I return home.

What I was told first round is hookset on fish, 50 lbs braid and rip goes the guides. Scared the heck out of his partner when the guides started popping out.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Okay
Just go off the phone wih the owner of the rod. He was using 50 lbs braid and flipping a sof plastic jerk bait and then set the hook bass style on a 8pound pike and there went the guides.

I asked if there were any leaders or floro NO
was it posible that line entangled around the first guide NO
Had he caught other fish that day with that rod YES

Rod is pu in a sock before going in rod locker

Not much to go on at this point.

Rolly Beenen
Rovic Custom Rods

Would not 50 lb braid be over kill ? The rod calls for up to 25lb mono.

Be sides that I see nothing wrong ??? Unless the line did wrap around the guides ???

Or you are still not hearing it all ??

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2009 07:01PM by bill boettcher.

50 lb braid may be over kill, but I use it all the time with micros with out problems.
From what I understand many of Mr. Feazel’s clients like wise are using braid of that strength and some times more with out problems

Rolly I don't know what the cause was. However I think something else was going on to cause the problem, He may not have noticed or realized it at the time and it hard from your stand point to refute what he is saying.

But if he is using line that is way above what that rod is rated for, as long as he knew that either by you communicating it to him or printed it on the rod. I don't see that you have an obligation to rebuild or replace it with out some sort of financial compensation, but that again is your call

Steve Gardner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However I think something else was going on to cause the
> problem, He may not have noticed or realized it at
> the time and it hard from your stand point to
> refute what he is saying.
>

If by that statement you are referring to the "month of use" mentioned in Rolly's thread opening post this may be getting somewhere. Could the cumulative effects of fishing, namely socking a knot or snarl into those first few guides significantly weaken them enough to fail under a hookset? Rather a stretch to expect the guy to remember every incident or nuance that took place prior to the day of the guide failure, but stuff like that could apply here. Limit the contributing factors to a rather narrow snapshot of time (the event day) and there may indeed be nothing found to go on. Broaden it out to the full use period of a month, there's more possibilties here many of which may never have been noticed, realized, or even remembered long if he were aware of them. Folks'll have a short memory retention of the seemingly insignificant, "seemingly" being the key word here. The forgotten may be very significant in this case.

My favorite thing about braid? Snarls and wind knots will often pull-out due to the slickness/and material properties of braid. Pull both ends of a knot like that with mono, you end with two pieces of mono almost everytime. Sometimes I swear I felt and even saw a snarl fly through the guides and out in front, but it "self-corrected" before even getting back to me for untangling. Yeah, despite the claims of no entanglent, one can see the possibiltiy here with braid to momentarily snarl a guide and then straighten out and leave no evidence that it ever happened that way. Few remember tangles they don't have to fight with or cuss at for awhile, doesn't mean those type of events can't rack up cumulative damage and weakening, especially on heavy tackle and small guides. We'll never really know with certain about this sort of thing, darn near impossible to quantify or verify.

Batson 3.5's on top and a "bass style" hookset on a flip fished pike as described in the opener? That sounds close range, what's the likely rod angle at the moment of hookset and failure? Entertaining the possibilty that the integrity of the first 1-2 guides that failed were cumulatively weakened by something like the above speculation over a month, wouldn't the resultant angle of line/force against the remaining guides be rather strange after the first failed? Not a straight pull at all, but more of a downward/side pull wrenching them out as each gives way. IOW, a static test with two or more guides removed from the layout on a flexed rod. Considering the weight of the tackle, the rod was likely flexed hard and would (I think) bounce or react as each successive guide came out. That's alot of jolting forces at odd angles on any type of guide if the rod is flexed and in the position I'm envisioning from the description provided.

Never experienced anything like this myself, so it may be way off. Does seem possible in theory and the fella's probably telling the truth as best he knows it. Could be fodder for another experiment if anyone cares to break their toys. Similar rod build, similar distance, clip a guide or two and give it a Bill Dance with a partner tugging the other end of 50# braid. I'm curious of the line angle and what rod bounce from failing guides would add to it all.

To further belabor the issue with another question, does the fact that it was "3.5's on top" and (I assume) a standard casting build have any bearing on forces that occurred? Specifically, the blank twist/torque that is so often mentioned as a reason for spiral wrapping. Assuming the line path drops from the intended when a guide fails, if the rod is twisting under load would it unload/untwist slightly at a guide failure and add to the force on the next guide? Seems like it could add to the event and I'm surprised no spiral guys mentioned this. I guess it's probably minimal if it pertains, but it might.

I'm assuming it was a chain reaction from butt to tip in previous post, could it happen from tip to butt? Also assuming in succession for both scenarios, but with previously weakened guide at beginning of either sequence to kick it all off.