Last year I built a simple spiral wrapped rod for bass fishing. It was one of my first spirals and I went dbl 8 to dbl 6 then 3.5's all the way out to a 3.5 tied as a tip top. I wanted to use this for an all around pitching rod (hence the dbl 8, easier to grab the line if I wanted to flip on occasion). What I did differently was instead of placing another guide as a bumper, I used the ring from a guide placed on the blank, wrapped with thread on each side to hold in place and then PG'd the ring in place. The second guide was at ~175degrees. This rod casts like a dream. I was not really worried about overall weight (RX7 843 blank), but did want a sensitive tip and an accurate rod. I was curious as to if anyone else had built something similar. A search on the photos did not reveal anything. I find it hard to believe that this is something novel, although I did not copy from anyone else.
My thinking was that this was the best compromise of a straight line transition with no blank rub. Additionally, there is no tourque on a bumper guide (none there), and no matter what state of flexion the blank finds itself, the ring will always be in the right place to keep the line straight and keep it off the blank. With a simple spiral, I could not get away from blank rub. Given the tangential path of the line, there was about an inch of rub. To me, that was too much friction and felt that it would impede the performance. Additionally, when flexing, the bend in the blank actually increased the surface area contact to the line.
Aside from weight, I do not see any down side and this technique and may actually be better than some other techniques because of the dynamic nature of the blank during use. It changes, whereas the guide placement cannot. Thoughts?
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Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else.
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Scott Throop worked with the same idea a few years ago... [www.rodbuilding.org]

One justification for experimenting with anything other than a simple guide as a bumper is that a moderate blank may flex in the area of the bumper and the flex would create angular deflection in the line path through the simple guide. This same justification brought up a concern with using an inflexible ring around the blank as a bumper; if the blank is flexing then it will distort from its regular cylindrical cross section to an oblong shape and the inflexible ring will restrict the cross sectional flex and may put undue stress on the blank.

I also experimented with using a wire guide spiraled around the blank. It did work but I found that it wasn't necessary. If the blank is soft enough to flex that deep in the blank then you'll find that the bumper guid, which is moving with the flex, is kept fairly in line with the adjacent guides. A proper stress test will show the optimum position for the bumper guide; be it 90 degrees, 100 degrees, or wherever, and that flexing will not change the line angle through the bumper guide enough to amount to any measurable side load. If you're getting blank rub then your guides may be too far apart or too short.

Properly placed, there is never any side load nor torque on the bumper guide.

The danger in placing a ring around the blank is that the blank changes shape as it flexes. If the ring constricts that change of shape, you'll have a failure at that point. Just something to be aware of.

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Thanks James for the reference. It did not come up with my searches. I was not first, but at least I am good company.
I was getting the rubs while in use. Static testing with flexing in my shop was not an issue. I took it to a pond and threw a spinnerbait and I was getting a lot of rub (used baby powder to indicate contact) especiall if it was under load [mostly weeds and grass, obviously not the target :) ]

I had the same concerns regarding constriction. The ring is not snug on the blank, it is on some thread and was still a little loose prior to the side wraps and PG.
Thank you for the thoughts and input.

I can't imagine how you were getting any blank rub with a guide there. How far apart are the 0 and first 180 degree guides?


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i am still a little confused on the spiral,which is not abnormal.i understand the bumper guide,i think,is to keep the line off the blank.my problem,however,is the placement of the stripper.if you spiral to the right,do you set the stripper guide a little right or a little to the left to keep the line coming on the reel in the center of the reel or do you set it on 0?thanks, jim.

You can set the butt guide where ever you want. The thing to remember is that on a reel with a level wind the line will move back and forth from side to side of the butt guide. On a spiral wrap, it will hold mostly on the side that the line is spiraled to. This means that in certain cases with hard pulling plugs it could stack heavy on one side of the reel spool. Thus, some builders will shift the butt guide so that the line itself is on the 0 axis. This requires that you shift the butt guide opposite the side the spiral is being made on - if you've spiraled to the right, the butt guide would have to be shifted slightly to the left in order for the line to come in to the reel directly on the 0 axis.

But this is not a requirement, just something that can be done if the line tends to spool heavy on one side of the spool.

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I had read a lot before building our first spiral. Then I set the guides so that the butt guide worked great with the reel, in this case a Stradic. I set it so that it was at a proper disatance so the line was spooling fine, and in a position so that the line was fed naturally to the bumper guide. Then down to the next guide. I did use a transition guide, one more than I would have needed actually. But I loved the way the guides layed out. This was on a 7 ft hvy fast blank from Lance at Swampland. Being a fast blank, I had plenty of room for the guide placement. It really works great. A great flipping rod, and will cast a long ways. As long as my line wrapped excellent on the reel, I tilted the guide. On my reel, about 15 degrees works good. I think it makes a differance how many inches you are from the reel as you start your spiral. And the transition is not complete before the bend, your rod will want to twist.
We are building another one now, I am adjusting the guide placement to fit this blank. It has a slower speed to it. So I will change the placement to match the rod. I kind of follow what I read, let the blank tell me where to place the guides. The running guides just follow and match the curve of the blank. I think this will be how I do each spiral. I do not see where the rub is, if you use a bumper, and it is in the right place, there should not be any rubbing. If so, the guides are not in the right place.
Kyle Robinson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 05:43PM by Kyle Robinson.

Kyle;
Are you sure you used a Stradic reel?

Tom,
The butt guide is 24" from the reel face, the ring bumper is 4" from the butt guide, and the ~175 guide is 9.5 inches from the butt guide
One more note is that the handle is not very long, which affects the placement of the butt guide

Steve, I am sorry! Typed Stradic, meant Curado!! Yes, it is for a Bait Caster!
Kyle Robinson