I'm re-building a 6'6" MH rod into a 6'8" MHF casting rod as my 1st rod build. The blank is all stripped down, extended 2", and ready to go, I"ve got a reel seat/foregrip all set up and I'm working on the rear split grips in my makeshift drill-lathe. I had a couple of questions about guides though:

1. With micros, do you use all micros or do you start with 2-3 traditional guides then micros to the tip?
2. This rod will be used for jig/worm fishing and light spoon jigging. Would you use the 3.5 or 4 size micros on it?


Also interested in trying to do some inlay work. How hard is it to inlay EVA into cork in designs?

Thanks

I just rewrapped a rod for a friend, a older St Croix Avid and used the simple spiral. I personally like to use double foot guides for the spiral which were Fuji BLNAG 06 and then used Fuji BLAG 04 out to the tip. It casts like a dream and is alot more responsive with the less weight of the guides on the rod. Think my buddy is really going to like it. I have seen and cast a rod Bill Stevens made with all micros to be used for lipless crankbaits and braid. That rod cast the lure so well, my jaw dropped the first few times i made a cast.

Nathan
Sorry to inform you that adding 2 inches to the rod or changing the guide set up will not turn a MH rod into a MHF rod, but going to the Micros should improve the rods performance

My personal preference (unless building a flipping/pitching stick) is to start with
a 6mm guide then 5mm, 4mm, 3.5’s or 3mm’s to the tip usually going with the 3mm’s unless I plan on using mono/floro over 20 lbs or above 65 lb braid.

But there are some (Bill Stevens, Bobby Feazel, and few) that will go 4mm guides all the way with great results. I may be wrong but I believe the majority of what they are doing that on are crankbait rods.

Unless you plan on passing knots through the guides, 3mm is what I would consider the best scenario

Nathan,

I just finished a 7' Castaway XP3 842 with all 3.0 titanium micros with the exception of the tip which had a size 6 ring. If you are using it as a bait caster you can do that. If you would like to see some pics of the one I just did or need help, just send me a pm. I got the help and advice I needed from Bill and Lance at Swampland tackle.

The build I did was for a good friend of mine. It is his first rod with micros. He loves it.

I think the most important piece of information you provided that his was you first rod build. Are you comfortable in building a spiral and a conventional all guides on top and what is your intital ipreference. It may be best if we get this first one completed in a reasonable manner. If you work with guide sizes for the first on with 4.0 rings you will find several guide choices available that have feet long enough for making the guide wraps quite easily. Some of the smaller guides can be quite troublesome even for an experienced builder. All on top are built by many using the same size guides for all. I use these for tip down techniques such as cranks - spirals for tip up pitching - Either way you build it will acheive the lower weight desired.

Steve good catch - I am also trying to figure out F - maybe nathan can explain that one to us.

Not to argue with Mr. Stevens as his very knowledgeable and helped me with the two rods I have built, but I used the size 3 guides I got from him on both rods (running guides on spinning rods). I they were a little tricky but I managed to wrap them without any major issue. My preference was to use the zap ties to hold the guides in place while test casting, then I would mark the guide location on the blank with a pencil and cut the tie off. I would then use the trick I have since seen posted on here about starting the wrap basically like a trim band.

My advice as a first time builder is to not be afraid to try and build it semi-complicated. I didn't do any marbling or fancy thread wraps or inlays but I did use micros and I also manage to turn my own split grip on a drill press and I even got a simple pattern in it by using the exotic burl. I would say it definently looks custom but is not the work of art you see some people accomplish around here.

Good luck with you build.

Patrick Rutledge

I'm building "all on top" no spiral wrap here. I am thinking of using 6, 5, 4, then 3.5s on out to the tip. The rod is a medium-heavy fast. It was always fast action just a typo in my original post, and I just did the 2" extension to learn how to do them. I'm going to try a longer extension on a spinning rod next. This is a learning rod for me, so I'm just trying lots of things on it for learning purposes.

I would like to try a surface inlay on the grip, like the flames done by Stan McLean. However, he does his EVA on EVA and I'd like to inlay EVA into cork, do a dark green flame into light burl. Is this possible? Will the two materials mix well?

I'm not trying to get this done fast, I"m very fastidious, take my time and am pretty handy with a dremel, so if the complex stuff takes me 3 months to get right I can live with it and I'll learn a lot along the way. Maybe I'll get really fancy and do some flame/marbling too. Who knows. Whatever happens, I'll keep working on it till I get it right.

Nathan Parker Wrote:
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.
> Whatever happens, I'll keep working on it till I
> get it right.

Tha's the most important part, being happy with the end result.

Nathan,
I too am working on my first rod which is also a 6-6 MH which I am stripping. I would also like to extend it to 6-9. How did you go about extending the blank?
I found some old broken butt pieces on @#$%& that might be good for this??

Other here will have a LOT more experience than I, but I used old broken rod pieces and put them inside the butt of the rod I'm redoing, so they overlapped 4-5 inches (strength) and then used epoxy. It makes for some tricky measuring if you're doing a split grip but it seems to have worked. I'll let you know when I've logged a couple hundred hours fishing time on them how well they hold up :)

Another thing to remember is a Batson 4mm and a Fuji 4mm are not the same size. Consider that when folks are throwing around guide sizes.

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Nathan

Since I build 'all on top' here's my thoughts about using transition guides. Once the reel is in place on a rod the first guide is always on the level wind. So why suddenly increase up to a larger size then go back down to a smaller size? Saves a little weight and works extremely well.

No controversy intended of course with any of my micro friends.

Extending the rod will create a faster action. 2 inches won't be a huge difference, but it will make some difference.

The first guide is important in that it will provide the height required to keep the line off or out from under the blank under full load. That's why it's generally larger or higher, or both. On rods with no foregrip or where you don't place your hand in front of the reel or where the rod rarely flexes much that far back, it's not as important.

EVA can be inlaid into cork with good results, although perhaps not as tight or slick as you can do EVA into EVA. Bernie Cohen's instructions are in the current issue of RodMaker.

.............

Part of my procedure for guide placement is to place the first guide where the fully loaded rod does not allow the line to go below the top of the rod. On a typical bass rod (which is what I build) this usually means that the first guide is farther away from the reel than customary convention suggests. The upside to this procedure is that one usually doesn't have to use more guides than normally used with conventional guides.

If you will do the following you will easily see why same size guides may be more appropriate for all on top.1

Take any conventional all on top rod - load it with limp line (braid - and have someone else throw it as far as they can.

Stand to the side and carefully watch the line between the pawl guide and the first large guide on the rod - fix the image of lateral movement in your mind.

Now take an all same size micro rod and have the same guy throw that one while you observe the same line segment.

You will quickly understand why the smaller guide train is superior - line flow greatly improved and it the lure will go furthur due to eleminating lateral line losses.

Guess what I can now build a rod for a crank bait rod that he customer will leave the hookeeper alone - I really never could figure out how they stayed tangled up and now I know.

Guide trains shoud be set up so they work properly not how they are supposed to look.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2009 09:33PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill, just for the sake of curiosity, how does the all micros on top rod respond to 12 to 14 lb mono ? Will it cast ok or should one use a larger stripper guide ?

J.B.Hunt
Bowling Green, KY

Jay the use of micros also extends to the se of mono and fluoro. Each case performs somewhat different considering the technique use. I build micro rods both spiral and all on top and feel that each has its advantages. The use of, outside the box of convention, all same size guides on top is very difficult to explain value to anyone that has not actually observed them personally. This applys to bait casting reels with stationary pawl guides during casting.