Does anyone have any experience with this blank? It is rated for 3/8-1 oz, 10-20 #. Specifically, I would like to know how well it should cast a 3/8 oz spinner bait, with 17# mono. I am a neophyte, when it comes to building and using casting rods. The person for whom it was built is not satisfied with how it casts the spinnerbaits that he likes to use for smallies, and I am just wondering if I totally botched the build (simple spiral, size 4 ceramics), or if, maybe, the blank is better suited to heavier lures. I used Permagloss, and am not looking forward to tearing the rod down, and starting over. He now is convinced that micros are way too small to work properly and that spiral wraps are garbage...He wants it turned into a conventional wrap with big guides.
Me-I just want to make sure that the rod can be re-built into something that will please him, before I spend the time to strip it. Or, is it remotely possible that this blank is not what it claims to be?

Just from the ratings I would think it was suited for heavier stuff. The "sweet spot" will be closer to 3/4 oz, in the middle. I don't think ther specifically is a need to rebuild it, just use it for another application, like jigs, or heavier lures. For the smaller spinnerbaits, you'll probably need a lighter powered blank.

I've not used that blank, but routinely use 3mm micro guides on spiral wrapped setups using up to 20 mono for spinner baits, both lighter and heavier spinner baits with out any casting or performance problems.

It possibly could be how you set up the spiral wrap or it could be the blank.
Before I rebuilt anything I would take it out myself and fish it a little to how it performs in your opinion. Could be that what he is expecting is not going to happen with that blank regardless of how its setup, and you would be better off going with a different blank.

George,
Before you rebuild the rod, ask your client to fish it a bit with a bait that is close to 1 oz.
The other thing to to is to pick up or borrow a production rod of the same blank that uses a conventional setup and compare the casting characteristics with casting weights of different weights.

If you find that a conventional build of the same blank - casts differently with the same weight - look over your build.

However, if you find that the two blanks cast in a very similar fashion - leave your build alone and select a different blank for your clients needs.

I would certainly do some comparison casting and testing before changing anything on your clients build. It sounds like the rod should be just fine; when used with the right line and lures.

Take care
Roger

I agree with both of the previous posters. 1) I think it IS too heavy, I wouldn't want to use a MH for the purpose unless it was one heck of a spinnerbait and; 2) Take it to the lake and tie on a 3/8 oz lure, cast and repeat. You will most likely be in agreement with the user.

I wouldn't try stripping that blank ... PermaGloss most likely got its name from sniping the front half of the word permanent. Just find someone that needs a rod for 3/4 ounce jigs and give them a heck of a deal. Buy an appropriate blank for the first guy, tape and test with 3/8 ounce, build it conventionally, build it with #6 guides and be done with it. Every rod is a learning experience, even after 20+ years. The key is to absorb the information and move forward.

Thanks, guys. Those were pretty much my thoughts, as well. I kinda thought the blank was too "heavy" for this application, but he really wanted this particular blank, and I didn't try to change his mind. Lessons learned (hopefully not needing to be re-learned...)

My opinion...the MHF is way too much rod for spinnerbaits. Unless, of course, you're fishing really big ones.

I would have been at the MF. Maybe even the spin version of the MF which is lighter yet.

I don't think its micros or the spiral wrap. The blank is way too heavy for what he wants to throw. Especially since its so short. The MHF is a broomstick in 7', much less 6'6".


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Better to have and not need than to need and not have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2009 01:06PM by Matt Davis.

George-that sure reads differently now that we know he insisted on THAT blank. With THAT in mind he handcuffed you before you started. Your rebuild option may now be to remove the finish from the blank after removing the guides. He may not be receptive to that. I would make an effort to convince him it is the wrong blank and that there is nothing wrong with the build.......but you've probably done that already. Rebuilding that one will prove that but doesn't solve the problem of having a rod that doesn't work for what he wants. He's not likely to accept responsibility then either. Some people can't be pleased

What a shame - the micro guides were not the issue.

All manufacturers, including St Croix, provide task specific information for the proper use of their blanks. Any prudent custom builder will take the time to reaserch the proper blank for the proper selection of a task specific blank.

Please compare the details of the Castaway XP3 blanks that are specifically set up for bass fishing of spinnerbaits. Compare this information to what you see on the blanks the fisherman wanted converted.

822 Details

6'10" Length Line # 8 - 14 Lure Oz. - 1/4 - 1/2
PWR - ML Action - Fast

Blank 823 Details

6'10" Length Line # 12 - 25 Lure Oz. - 3/8 - 3/4
PWR - M Action - Fast

If you need help with the correct blank choice there are many posts on this forum pertaining to bass fishing task specific uses. The information is here - learn to use the available resources and try to evade other similar experiences.

George,
i hope you don't mind my input here...since im just a fisherman and not a builder.............................It,s the spiral wrap not the blank.................................i have fished with the rod you are speaking of (the one sold for the public) although, a tip heavy rod......it was excelante' for Spinnerbaits.................esp the 1/4 to 1/2 oz models.......althought its not a fact, it appears that most folks i fish tournaments with and who chase the little brown or green fishes with spinnerbaits...."dislike" spinning style guide setups.......it is NOT a setup geared towards the Rapid Fire casting neaded to locate and connect with the constantly moving schools of smallmouth.......for any who don't agree...........thats COOL.....(once again, im just a bass fisherman not a rod builder....((YET)) .................but give this a try............mock up the same blank/ reel/ line with the diferent wrap styles.....go out to the lake with two identical 3/8 willow blade spinnerbaits.........take along a witness with a stop watch and a counter....pick a medium length target in the water and try to make AS many ACCURATE casts as possible in FIVE MINUTES)
If Anyone believes the spiral setup is the same or better................do the experiment, "honestly", and prove that its the right setup for Bass Fishing Wtih Spinner Baits...........

......the blank you picked.... IMHO.is a reel good rod for spinnerbaits....ALOT of backbone for those longdistance-clearwater hooksets.........the length is perfect for long days fishing......OH yha, you said 17lb test.....right ......your client KNOWs Spinnerbaits this blank was a good choice................................one final observation,............ this entire tournamnt season i fished all my spinner bait (up to 1/2oz) with a 7'0 med heavy- fast action 1/4-3/4oz shimano crucial baitcaster............and i felt that altough a pretty stiff rod it needed MORE power LESS action for spinnerbaits.....(basically more backbone and slight bite more flex.....) .............................so .i'm having the SCII 6'10 heavy Mod-fast rod made,with Micros's and conventional wrap.........it's being made for fishing with Jigs and Spinnerbiats in mind.................i've tried lesser power rods for spinnerbaits, i think thats great for leasiure fishing but for Serious bass fishing, the lighter build is not worth the lost fish because of its weeker back bone........................Spinnerbait hook sets are, FOR-REAL.........whimpy sticks, need not apply!!!!!!!

(please don't get offended...just one silly mans opnion...not facts)

Robert;
With all due respect, I would suggest you do some research and find out what a spiral wrap is.
It has nothing to do with a spinning set up or spinning rod.
It is only used on bait casters type rods.

As a tournament fisherman and builder, I almost exclusively use spiral wrapped rods.
Given the opportunity to try one you just might change you uniformed opinion, and permit you the opportunity to get the facts

Hmmm....

Steve Gardner Wrote:
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> Robert;
> With all due respect, I would suggest you do some
> research and find out what a spiral wrap is.
> It has nothing to do with a spinning set up or
> spinning rod.
> It is only used on bait casters type rods.
>
> As a tournament fisherman and builder, I almost
> exclusively use spiral wrapped rods.
> Given the opportunity to try one you just might
> change you uniformed opinion, and permit you the
> opportunity to get the facts

Thank you mr gardner.......i guess my post wasn't CLEAR....sorry.....I'm VERY aware of what a spiral wrap rod is (ie, fished with a baitcaster ;)), and have done enough research to know where it EXCELLS over the conventional baitcasting setup.........as well as, where..... it.....is.......inferior.
There are both advantages to this set up and disadvantages......and the disadvantage for.... ME AND ME ONLY.......whould be In the amount of "ontarget cast per/hour".........steve as a tournament fisherman yourself...(with the utmost respect, probably a whole lot more experience than me)....you know that ON AVERAGE the angler who can make the.....MOST and MOST ACURATE CASTs During a tournament day usually gets a check.......and the rest,.............a hand shake and "thanks for entering"

My post WASN"T talking crap about spiral wraps...........and im sorry anyone felt that way......( geeze....sensitive..;)......)
it was more about the blank.....and i still feel that the choice was execelant for a spinnerbait fished with 17lb test.............................

Steve...... i live in Manor Tx.....and if you ever wanted... we could take out Identacle setups....(conventional me)....and (spiral you) and we could give it a go and just..............see...huh......(the final numbers will definately supprise one of us..............that forsure)
thanks again

maybe, since im not Builder, i'll just stay out of ya'll "educated discussions" I just hope that the "listening to your client" lingo on the rodbuilding websights and on this forum is not just lipservice and builders value what we "bass fishermen" have to say...................................COOL???????

love you guy
robert

Robert;
Your input is most welcome on this site. But when you made the comment that most tournament fishermen
"dislike" spinning style guide setups.......it is NOT a setup geared towards the Rapid Fire casting neaded to locate and connect with the constantly moving schools of smallmouth.......”
I wrongly thought you were referring to the rod to which the input was being asked in the first post. I did realize that you had switched subjects in the middle or your reply.
Sorry
Was not being touchy or meaning to be offensive, again I apologize.

I did not think you were talking crap about spiral wraps, based on your comment I thought you had confused them as having something to do with spinning rods.

“Steve...... i live in Manor Tx.....and if you ever wanted... we could take out Identacle setups....(conventional me)....and (spiral you) and we could give it a go and just..............see...huh......(the final numbers will definately supprise one of us..............that forsure)
thanks again”

Robert I live in NC, but if at anytime I’m down that way I would enjoy taking you up on your offer, always willing to learn something. Maybe even go fishing together.
If you choose to come to the International Custom Rods Builders Expo next February we could also get together.

I am curious to know what you find as the down side of spiral wraps?
Love You Too!
Steve

Hmmmmmm

I haven't built the 2MHF, but I can tell you that I will NOT fish a 3,4, or 5MF for spinnerbaits or 3/8oz lures for that matter, just not enough rod for me. I dearly love the new 5C70MHF blank and I think it's one of the most versatile blanks with a lot of backbone out there today. The 5C70MF is just not enough rod at all imo for a 3/8oz spinnerbait.

I made a friend of mine the 5C70MHF blank as an "all around spinning rod" for smallmouth bass. The rod was a gift and the guy was use to much lighter rods: 1/8-5/8 ranges. The 3/8-1oz scared him to death when he seen the label. I told him to FISH IT and get back to me after several river trips. He did, and he was amazed at how far he could throw a WEIGHTLESS Super Fluke. Think about that a minute. A rod rated 3/8-1oz and the boy's throwing weightless flukes on it. And, his hook up ratio's went through the roof (large wire hook in the flukes) and it became his favorite rod that he wants to throw everything on, so he complains because he has to re-tie so much now just to use that one rod.

And on the 3/8 ounce kick a bit..... from Feb-May we throw 3/8oz bucktails long distance for striped bass, all day long. We carry 2 rods each and ALL FOUR are MH power rods rated in the 3/8-1, two are mag bass blanks as well. All 4 rods are spiral wrapped and they cast VERY well. Could you cast farther with a lower/lighter rated blank? I'm sure you might, but not much, and how much long distance casting is required with spinnerbaits anyway?... you'll also not have the power in that med power rod to drive the thick wire single hooks into play either-"as well" I should say.

Bottom line, I wont build a med power spinnerbait rod unless it's for 1/4oz spinnerbaits (or that one rods rating doesn't really match the rod and should be in the MH range), anything over that needs the MH power in most rods-some are different. Opinion only here, but give me the MH every time.

DR

robert dockery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you mr gardner.......i guess my post wasn't
> CLEAR....sorry.....I'm VERY aware of what a spiral
> wrap rod is (ie, fished with a baitcaster ;)), and
> have done enough research to know where it EXCELLS
> over the conventional baitcasting setup.........as
> well as, where..... it.....is.......inferior.
> There are both advantages to this set up and
> disadvantages......and the disadvantage for.... ME
> AND ME ONLY.......whould be In the amount of
> "ontarget cast per/hour".........

Robert -

Pure curiosity - is this based on research or experience? I fish both build styles (including two different spiral configurations) and don't really notice a difference in either between accuracy. Now that I think about it, my go to rod for dock work is spiral wrapped. Go figure!

I'm not sure how a spiral wrap could result in less accuracy. I would like to know why as I've never heard that mentioned. Not saying it isn't so, just would like to hear some rationale.

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AD

Duane,

Glad to hear you speak up about the MH's. I built a 2C66MHF for myself as a spinning rod. Used size 4 BLAG's as runners and it was a dream to cast...with light lures and 15lb braid. When I say light lures, I'm talking about 6" wacky worms(no additional weight) and 1/4 oz crankbaits. The worms were a bit on the light side, but the rod still threw them plenty far. As far as the crankbaits, it would throw them just as far as the 2S70MF that I just built this week. Great blank and great rod, too bad I allowed a friend to talk me out of it. For my personal preference, the MF's have too light of a tip for a 1/4oz crankbait, I like something a bit heavier.

jeremy

It sounds like he might be using too heavy line and too light bait. I would be interested to see how it performed with a heavier plug.

A spiral wrap will not have any effect on casting accuracy. The lure goes where the tip of the rod sends it and neither knows nor cares whether the line is traveling along the bottom or the top of the rod.

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