For those of you who are or have been engaged in regular rod sales, how do you feel about filing a request to build a rod type that you are not familiar with? Can a builder who primarily fishes coastal waters and builds inshore/offshore rods fill a request for a spey rod for use in Canada and be confident that the customer is getting the best rod possible? Can the cane builder in the Ozarks fill a request for a stand-up tuna rod for use in Mexico having never seen a tuna?

Where is your comfort zone and is the customer really getting the best service from a builder who is working outside of theirs?

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

I only build inshore spinning rods for clients ... speckled trout to tarpon. Anything beyond that is limited to personal use OR very close friends.

Even with my fairly narrow scope of production, I keep over $5-6K in component inventory. And I have another $3-4K tied up in spinning reels, as a Daiwa and Shimano dealer.

I only offer what I really know ... meaning proper testing and plenty of fishing time. My opinion is that by restricting myself to a segment of production, I am actually offering MORE, not less, to each client. The theory being that my rods are truly "dialed in" for the purpose.

Jim -

It depends on how well armed that builder is with information about the rod he's been requested to build. Granted, there is no substitute for experience, but at the minimum the builder should have complete and in-depth information on the type rod that's been requested. If he does, then there is a good chance he can build a rod that will satisfy the customer. If not, well... it's a crap shoot.

.............

Some custom builders with basic skills can work quite comfortably outside the box of convention while others will soon require an oxygen tank if they are to breath comfortably when in unfamiliar territory.

What is the real key - know limitations - ability to learn to dance to different music - and where to get help when needed!

This is a perfect example - this fly rod sure ain't no bass micro or spec launcher

First and last fly rod I will ever ever build!

Changed the IGFA Rules for Blue Water Fly Rods - Here is the narrative text without the graphics describing a real outside the box build.

Rodbuilder's War and Peace
Custom Fly Rod For Dr. William Loe

Prologue:

Fishermen often wonder what is involved in the building of a custom fishing rod. Custom rods may be built for specific fishing tasks and taylored to the exacting needs of highly qualified anglers.

These tabulated notes detail the customer desires, market research, acquisition of components, artistic design, ergonomics, structural integrety, consultant interface, IGFA Rules compliance, personal fit up and testing, construction and final acceptance of a truly one of a kind custom blue water fly rod.

The project targets the custom building of a 16/18 wt blue water fly rod. The primary intent of the project is to provide the angler with a customized fly rod fly rod to break the existing IGFA Sanctioned World Record for yellow fin tuna.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Principles:

Dr. William Loe - Angler/Owner/Expert Class Fly Fisherman/Pediatric Surgeon

The project would never have started without the patience, understanding, fly fishing experience and funding approval provided by William. His specific requests guided the consultants, builder and the special artisan during all phases of the project.

William, a highly skilled salt water angler, is one of 50 selected fly fishing anglers for the Tarpon Fish Off in Miami, Florida for the 2007 event.

Joe Emig - Graphic Artisan, Grip Builder, Grip Component Construction

Joe's ability to create highly functional components for fishing rods in an appealing and tastefull manner are truly works of art and are highy prized by anyone using or viewing his astounding work. Joe's work is frequently featured in Rodmaker Magazine. Joe worked directly with William to insure that the artistic and ergonometric concepts for the grips met all customer expectations.

Michael Taylor - Blue Water Design - Set up of rod and component selection.

Michael's experiece building of heavy weight blue water fly rods was utilized to insure the completed fy rod would meet the requirements for intended use. Michael supplied multiple drawings and proven set up configurations for rods used for sailfish, marlin, tuna and shark by Blue Water Design. Blue Water Design provided information for guide sizing and set up for casting and fighting grips.

Custom Builder - Bill Stevens - Gon Fishn Custom Rods

Bill is a builder of inshore popping rods for speckled trout and redfish.. He is also one of the instructors at the yearly International Custom Rodbuilding Symposium held in High Point North, Carolina.

Take a look at the obstacle course that was run to get this rod from the mind of Dr. William Loe to deck of the boat leaving the marina in Venice, Louisiana headed to "Mars" in search of a world record yellow fin tuna. We have no doubt that the IGFA record book will soon be ammended!

If you happen to be curious about how much this one cost the correct answer is -

Priceless!

If you would like to own a fishing rod like this contact a custom builder!

Cast of Characters

The following custom builders, blank designers, artisans, consultants have been directly involved, most in a constructive manner, during the design and building of Tuna Quest a 16/18 wt fly Rod. Attached communications document a significant number of construction issues which are highly important. A partial listing includes:

Multi Modulus, Blank Ratings, Spine Effect, Fiber Orientation, Insertion of butt plugs for removable fighting butt, casting and fighting grip ergonomics, IFGA Rules, guide ring size, guide spacing, guide height, guide frame materials, fit and finish, compression failure, Perma Gloss, acrylics, Moiere Effects, flexible adhesives and visual art.

Bill Batson - President Batson Industries - Squim, Washington

Jason Brunner - Blank Engineer - St Croix

Mark Crouse - Munich Rod Man

Lance Dupree - Swampland Rods

Joe Emig - Artist, Grip Turning and Shaping, Trim Acrylics and scrimshaw.

Lefty Kreh - Fork Outfitters (IGFA Rules)

Emory Harry - Custom Builder - fiber orientation

Tom Kirkman - Rodmaker Magazine Editor - Host International Custom Rod Building Symposium

Bob Meiser - R. B. Mieser Fly Rods

Mark Mathews - Superior Tackle

Stephen Pratt - Owner/blank engineer CTS (Composite Tube Specialists)

Steve Ratieff - Fly Rod Designer (IGFA Rules)

Mark Sosin - Editor Saltwater Sportsman Magazine (IGFA Rules)

Jason Schratweiser - Rules Committe IGFA Staff - Orlando, Fl.

Michael Taylor - Blue Water Design - rod set up for tuna

Todd Vivian - Blank Designer Lamiglas - Woodland, Washington

Bill of Material

Struble (SDS) Aluminum Reel Seat Salt Water Service Anodized Black

CTS Revo 16/18 wt one piece 8' 4" Cobalt Blue Blank

Four Fuji Black Graphite Reel Seat Arbors

Aftco Small Anodized Black Butt Gimbal

8 1/2 Inch Burl Full Wells Casting Grip

3 Inch Tuna Quest Action Scene Scrimshaw Trim Spacer

7 Inch Oval Hypalon Fighting Grip 1.20" OD

Fugi Titanium Frame Gold Cermet Guide Set and Tip Top

TISVGG30U - TISVGG16U - TISVGG12U - TISV10U
TILVGG10U
Four TIGG10U
TIGG8U Tip Top 7.5 Tube

Gudebrod Black Nylon B Thread

J Metallic Gold Trim Bands

Rod Bond Assembly Epoxy

Perma Gloss Guide Wrap Finish

True Oil Burl Sealer and Satin Finish

Five Minute Devcon Tip Top Installation

Blue Canvas Rod Bag

PVC Transport Case

Should I have turned down this build because I had no experience - ABSOLUTELY NOT!

If you want to work outside the box - go to work and learn the skills - they are available to those who know how to fully utilize the all the resources of this Internet Forum.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2009 03:14PM by Bill Stevens.

I like to be pulled out of my comfort zone and challenged with something I have never done. I love it because I learn something new and I feel like I become a better builder for it.

BUT - that being said, I will be very upfront with the customer, tell him I have never built one like that, it may take me longer than normal, and the results could come out mixed, but they will have the option of declining the rod after built if it turns out to be a flop - try it - see what you think kinda thing.

Interestingly enough, this has gained me some customers. They knew I was upfront, honest and also very receptive to what THEY wanted and they have LOTS of input along the way. Also gives them an appreciation of what it takes to build a rod when the customer is involved.

I encounter this a good bit with bass rods which is 95% of what I build. I feel very comfortable building bass rods. But these guys will want a rod for something different that is not a "normal" technique - stuff that never appears in the bass magazines. Many builders would say "that's close to a X, so that will work." It will work - but it's not often perfect. It takes the input of the angler, knowing your resources, and sometimes going out to the water and experimenting to find the solution. Granted, I have a base of knowledge to start from because it is bass related, but some of this stuff is just off the wall sometimes!

-----------------
AD

To me a custom rod builder is someone who engineers the design and construction of a rod, using not only his skills, experience and understanding of the dynamics and principles involved for application, assembly and construction, but also to understand and apply the parameters of component function, design specification, materiology and ergonomics, that will in his view perform a given task to the best ability within the limitations of any constraints. He will have many sources for, and actively research new information, test and experience new theories, techniques, methodology, materials and components to further his understanding and satisfy his own desire to put into practice what he knows is best. Most of all he will be passionate about what he does and it will show in his works perfomance regardless of his specialist field in rod building.
For myself, I love the experience of working in a new field, pushing the envolope in design and fine tuning task specific function. Sometimes I actually achieve what I intended. Most of the time I believe I build a better rod that outperforms those I could buy off the shelf-But in the end, and most of all, I feel I have a much deeper understanding of the design and perfomance capabilities of the rods I build, whatever there field of use.

Rodmakers mag has done many indepth articles on specific rod types and styules. STand up, trolling, great lakes, UL, Surf, spey and many many many others. They are complete instructions for all the different rod types written by people who specialize in those types.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2009 12:52PM by John Sams.

I used to think like Jim. If I didn't fish it or at least wasn't very familiar with the application I wouldn't build it especially for sale but now I find myself thinking much more like Alex. I enjoy getting out of that comfort zone and taking on a challenge.

Last fall I built a couple fly rods as gifts. As I have never casted a fly line I needed to pull information from various sources such as books, this forum and advise from trusted individuals. The feedback I received from the end users has been very encouraging.

Like Tom said, "there is no substitute for experience". However, today more than any other time, we rod builders have available to us a wide variety
of information sources to take advantage of and by so using, we have more sales options than ever before. The IGFA class fly rod Bill Stevens built
is a good example of this.

Still, in some cases I think that the customer would be better served to be referred to a builder who better fits that customers specific needs. I guess the hard part for the rod builder is to decide when and when not that is the case. I imagine the line can be quite thin sometimes.

I brought up this subject because it looks like the opportunity for me to advance from a hobby builder to an employee or contract rod builder. My dad is taking over a small sporting goods retail business and will be selling custom rods full time via this new venture. I'm not sure yet how much I will be involved and to what capacity but the opportunity look quite promising. However, I see myself being required to approach areas out of my "comfort zone" and provide the highest level of customer service to fisherman on a regular basis. Exciting but also a bit scary!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

WOW Ray, if you do get into the venture, I'm sure you will be building many more fly rods as you are in the center of Califonia's fly fishing. What with the Sac, upper & lower, the Sierras and the many waters around and above Redding fly fishing abounds! With your rod building experience you should have no trouble adjusting to the "quite sport."

Those who choose to remain in the Comfort Zone forever limit growth and can easily become stagnant! Most custom rodbuilders escape that horrid place the first time they build a custom rod for a customer. Raymond accept the challenge and build them right!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2009 06:25PM by Bill Stevens.

You bet Bill!
Thanks & BTW, that tourny dude never got back to me. His loss!

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..

LOL! I am still trying to master just one type of rod for trout let alone dabbling into other rods....:) Good thread. I've always wondered.

Mo