Any comments on the use of the Pac Bay minima guides?

[www.fishpacbay.com]

Pages 2,14,17 and 26 are examples of these guides. Also a bit of weight and size comparison.

I used these for building a bunch of ice rods this winter with excellent results, and have also built a few long rods this spring. I am just beginning to get favorable feed back from the users of these rods. So, since the users seem to like them, and the weight and appearance is liked, I suspect that I will continue to use them for some of the rods that I build. The nice thing about these guides is that one can typically go one size smaller than one would normally use due to the larger hole size of the guide for the same guide number.

Any other thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

Take care
Roger

I have them on 2 rods now and fished one extensively on Sunday.

They are at least as noisy as snake guides when used on a fly rod. Well, maybe not quite that bad, but noticeably loud when compared to ceramics.

They are extremely light and generally weigh about 20% less than the same sized ceramic guide (I've weighed a few for comparative purposes). Because they offer a larger ring opening for the same size, you can use one size smaller to give you the same effective ring opening, thus reducing weight even further.

The spinning models come in 2 different frame heights making the NGC very easy to employ.

I can't say how they'll hold up to the line grooving. I suspect they'll handle mono fine. Braid is another matter.

If weight reduction is the goal, these guides provide an easy and effective way to achieve it.

................

Thanks--nice to get some feed back since I have quite a few coming.

John:
If you have the weights could you submit them to the --rod building component weight site ? : [rodcomponents.koolhost.com]. The site needs more info on it

Noise, maybe they should have gone ceramic rings

Thanks

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2009 11:19AM by bill boettcher.

John,
I agree.
Based on the feedback that I am getting from my first builds using these guides; I have ordered a much larger amount of these guides.

Attractive guide, nice size, light weight and good price.

Take care
Roger

is any one going to bother to put the weight on that site so every one can see how much they weigh ??
Thanks

Bill - willierods.com

I spoke to Vic Cutter at Pac Bay, and he claims there will be no grooving issues with braids - so we'll have to see on that one. These guides are very light, attractive finishes, and near impossible to pop a ring out of even in the M3 version. I have about 6 rods out with them so far and nothing but good to say.

No real "data" yet, but good feedback for sure.

Good Luck!

Two questions:

Why use a guide with a steel insert? We know there are way better materials.

Why use a guide when you do not know if later down the road the rod may be used with braids and have issues?

Stainless Steel? Ok thats 3 :-)

Forgive me, I just don't "get it" for most applications. I was impressed until I realized that the ring material was steel, not ceramic.

DR

Eventually, you reach a point of diminishing returns. If the minima insert will not groove and is lighter than the ceramic, then we might want to stop short of saying that there are "better" materials. Better in what way? It's always important to use products that will do the job adequately at the bare minimum, but beyond that what are you gaining by using anything more?

Vic knows a great deal about the tackle business and if he says that braid won't groove the inserts then I'm apt to believe him. But I have no practical experience to go by in this area. I only know that the greatly reduced weight of these guides puts them on the radar screen for any rod builder who wants a crisper, more sensitive rod.

I do believe that it will take some time and use by a variety of rod builders to really find out whether these things are going to last, but what I have seen thus far has impressed me. I have always been a big fan of ceramic guides but the weight difference compared to the Minima guides is just incredible.

.............

Someone weigh a set of these things and lets see what they have in comparison to others.

I've never used a PacBay item that I didn't like! (have not used them all obviously) but being a long time braid user, and not calling out ANYONE, I have my doubts with any steel ring-but anythings possible. It's simply a hardness issue in my mind. Braid picks up grit, transfers it to the guides in a sandpaper like fashion. Most ceramic is hard enough to withstand this polishing. I have not seen a steel ring that is, yet....I hope these are :-) Your sound that you hear Tom.....well.....kinda makes you wonder eh?

DR

Duane,
All right - all ready -- I went down to the shop and set up a weight test.

To get enough guides to see a difference if any - I selected a set of my normal sized guides for a typical spinning rod.

I compared Fuji Alconite guide and the Pac Bay Minima guides.

The guide set for each test consisted of
1- 25, 1-16, 1-10, 1-8, 2-7 and 1-6 guide.

The weight of the Fuji Alconite guide set was 7 grams.

The weight of the Pac Bay Minima guide set was 5 grams.

The difference is 29%.

Also, when comparing the size of the guides, the inner diameter of the Pac Bay Minima guides were always larger than the Fuji guide of the same number. Typically, the difference was about equal to the thickness of the apparent width of the alconite coating in the Alconite guide. Thus, the statement, that generally speaking, one could down size at least one number for equivalent hole size performance by using the Pac Bay minima guides compared to a more conventional guide.

Take care

Roger

Exactly, which would result in an even greater weight savings. I believe they advertise a difference of 25% over the same guides with ceramic rings. Drop down one size and you still have the same effective ring opening and end up with weight savings approaching 50%. That's not insignificant.

............

Thanks Roger!! :-)

Dropping ring size usually drops frame height as well.....also a consideration I'd think?..depending the rod/use of course.....

DR

The Minima guides are the lightest guides I know of for the dollar. They are about as light a guide for the actual inner diameter of the ring as anything you can get on the market regardless of cost.

So, that's one reason for the steel rings. Another reason is that the steel rings are not going to shatter although I've not heard of many ceramics shattering.

However, as to grooving, there's no doubt in my mind that the SICs are going to be much more durable. TiN coatings are super hard but they are also very thin. Below that, I'm told, is a hard chrome coating, and then only the steel. I know chrome can be grooved. However, my guess is that for most applications, they should be durable.

Mo

here are some Vicker's hardness figures: [rodcomponents.koolhost.com]

Bill - willierods.com

Who is carrying the minima's? Has anyone had a chance to measure the size 4's they have listed? Curious about the size and weight compared to the Batson BMKLG's

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com