After building and using several micro - guided rods, I am gradually setting them aside and am going back to more conventional rods.

Don't misunderstand me. I love the casting of the rods using the micro guide setup.

The real issue is using micros in a real world.

i.e. junk in the water, getting on the line and jamming the guides.
The use of swivels or knots, getting jammed on the guides.
When a line twists, the twist catches on the lines and makes it difficult to get the twist back to the reel for removal.
When using the micro guided rod in cold weather with icing on the guides and guides freezing shut.

Yes, in a perfect world with bright sunny skies, and clean clear water, and no knot or swivel - the micro guided rods rock.

Trouble is - there are often conditions, where these perfect conditions simply don't exist.

It seems that for lighter rods, the use of a size 6 is about optimum most of the time for most waters.
But, if fishing icing conditions, then going up to 7 or 8 guides is better.

When fishing heavy rods and or troubled waters, it seems that a size 7 is about the smallest that I want to continue going to to avoid long term trouble free operation.
The same is true with salt water rods. i.e. about a size 7 or possibly even a size 8 for overall long term trouble free results.

I wish we all lived in a perfect world with smooth cool clear clean junk free water with no ice or other problems. Trouble is - we don't.

For the right conditions, I will continue to use the micro guided rods. However, I will continue to build rods for clients requests, and based on these facts; be sure to point out both the advantages as well as the limitations of the micro guided rods.

Take care
Roger

I have a dozen or so rods with size #6 fly guides and they also load up with cottonwood and green scum. It's a short time while the water is dirty.

Good for you Roger!
If I run into the same conditions I might come to the same conclusions.

But after 3 years of use on many lakes and rivers in different sates through tournament competition, bass, striper, and occasional monster cat fish, I've yet to have them nor have any of my clients mentioned them to me.

It is refreshing to hear reports concerning some downside or limitations concerning the micro guides. It is nice to get a reality check.

Nothing has changed for wise rod builders - for the best performance, always use the proper sized guides.

The proper sized guides are the smallest and lightest guides that will perform the required task and which will hold up over the long haul. A guide that won't pass your line or connections, or which fouls from any manner of stuff you regularly encounter, is not the proper sized guide.



..........

Well.....I use the guides on all of my personal rods and most customer builds. I did not have a problem with icing this past winter...at least not more than a size 6 guide.....the ice seemed to form in front of the guide instead of the ring and then get thrown off at the next cast...

As for cottonwood....well....let's just say I HATE this time of year. I just have a size 3 guide on my cranking rod jam twice on me in my wednesday night tourny this week....but considering that the cotton wood is only out for a short period of time each year I would rather clean my line off on one trip and have the micro benefits the rest of the year.

I dont know of ANY reasonably sized guide that would pass a swivel....I think you are exaggerating a bit there. As for knot's I have found the 3' to pass a blood knot w/ 20lb braid tied to 12lb. flouro just fine..but you will need to test your knot size in the guides to see if it works.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

A swivel isn't going to be good for any ceramic guide - too easy to crack a ring or tear it out.

.............

I applaud you for having the guts to throw out your feelings and surely expect some contrary feedback. I can respect that. Please take this reply as investigation, clarification, and interest.

I've personally had no issues with large stripers and plenty of bass on rods with micros. I believe the salt guys are seeing very positive results on redfish... now that's a bruiser and would certainly test something intended for "light" or "freshwater" applications.

I'd like to investigate some of the issues you are presenting:

"Troubled waters" - can you define that? I'm unsure of what that means.

What type of fishing are you doing? Bass, trout, muskie, etc? Where have you seen success and where have you seen problems per species?

Where are you seeing line twist and hanging up - spinning or casting? Tip or in the guides? When I have had line twist it usually gets fouled up around the tip for me even on a size 6 tip. I'd like to know where you are seeing this. Could be other factors than guide size.

Personally I don't understand leaders. Not a fan, not a user. So never had an issue. Have you tried using well tied and trimmed knot and positioning it where the line velocity is up to speed during a cast PRIOR to the knot getting to the first guide ring? This means that it may be better to tie the knot back on the spool and not between guides. It will pass Fuji 3.5 SIC and Alconite 4.0.

What do you see as the limitating factors? I can see ice, but that's noted in larger guides as well. What kind of stuff is in the water you are fishing that is causing a problem?

I ask and probe deeper is because I wonder if there is the possibility of regional, body of water, and angler preference differences that could be contributing to the different outlooks on the use of micros.

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Alex,
I think one of the reasons that I brought this up, is that here in the midwest, we are in the midst of the worst dry conditions in 75 years. Our lakes are much lower than normal and due to the lake of rain, are not flushed with fresh water as is normally the case for us here.
I think that I was just grousing a bit, because - I was just unhappy with some of the recent water conditions and the results on the rod, guides and line.

In contrast, I was fishing in Canada last week, and they have had above normal rain fall and no issues at all with scum or crud on the water. Everything was moving too fast.

Having said that - when I am encountering some of the conditions that I have fished recently with less than stellar waters, I am reaching for the rods with the larger guides as opposed to those with the smaller ones.

Then, when conditions clear up with more rain which, we hope, will come eventually - I will go back to the rods with the smaller guides for the well documented reasons.

--
However, in that same vein, I have had a few rods come back this season with requests to guide them larger - and "tougher".
These are for folks who guide, and who have some of their rods see some pretty tough service. They just want to guide up - to "toughen" the rods from careless clients who have bent and or twisted some of the smaller guides and less well braced tips.
So, as Tom so adequately posted earlier - the right guide and tip for the right application under the conditions being used.

Take care
Roger

I hear what you are saying about water conditions as here in the southeast we have lived through one of the worst droughts on record. My home lake stayed down a minimum of 10' for two years, dropping as low as close to 16' for over a year of that. Lakes Lanier and Allatoona over in GA, which I don't fish, were highlighted on the national news multiple times because of water levels... Clarks Hill looked no different and actually came up slower and later. So I feel ya there.

"I have had a few rods come back this season with requests to guide them larger - and "tougher".
These are for folks who guide, and who have some of their rods see some pretty tough service. They just want to guide up - to "toughen" the rods from careless clients who have bent and or twisted some of the smaller guides and less well braced tips"

I don't see it, but ok. Smaller pieces of metal are harder to bend and I would challenge that they are somewhat tougher because of this. Go twist a 6 and go bend a 3 and see which bends more and easier. Unbraced tips are proven to have problems and braced solutions have been offered.

I think to simply say "they don't work in dirty water" or for this or that, requires a little more investigation and "mythbusting". A lot has gone into finding the ways to make them work for specific applications. It's only fair to spend the same amount of time with the same concrete repeatable results to resolve the issues of why they don't work for other applications.

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