Hello all,

I have a tournament bass angler acquaintance who has the opportunity to fish two identical blank, very high modulus graphite baitcasters, one with Recoil guides and one with regular ceramic guides. He claims the one with the Recoils is far more sensative than the rod with the ceramic guides. Of course that is not much of a surprise. However, that got me thinking, what about micros? If you had two rods, same blank for both, one with Recoils and one with micros, both would be very light, but which would be more sensative? Would the ceramic ring in the micros dampen the sensativity the same as a regular sized guide with a ring? Or would the weight reduction with the micros negate that? Just curious if anyone has any experience with the sensativity of micros vs. Recoils, which is more sensative. And what would be the pros and cons of one over the other.

Thanks!
Jeff.

Unfortunately I don't have any hard data comparing the two.

My personal preference would be micros.

I'm not a fan of the recoils. Large part of that is personal preference.

Given the two, the lighter set should result in the more sensitive blank - so you would need weights for the full set of guides for that particular rod.

If weights are the same, I would also look at foot length as the longer the wrap, the more rod finish and thread and possible impact to the natural flex of the blank. So I'd go with whichever had a shorter foot in that case.

The less you add in weight, the more sensitive the rod will end up being. And if you can figure out a way to consistantly measure sensitivity - you solved a $1M question.

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Blank for blank, the rod which is overall lighter would be the more sensitive one.

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I'll pass on the sensitivity question because I have never used recoils, but there is another very important difference that your tournament bass fisherman may have not realized. If he uses braid on his two identical rods then my guess is that he experiences a good number of braid "wind knots" (loops and knots around guides) both with the ceramics and especially with the recoils. If you use micros on the rods then the number of braid "wind knots" will be few and far between.

I have a previous Bass Master Classic winner using micros and he resoundly states that they can save him as much as 30 minutes of fishing on a tournament day just because he doesn't have to stop and get the tangles out. He is totally sold on the micros but unfortunately for him and me, his rod sponsor has not yet seen the light.

My choice would definitely be micros. It takes quite a handful of micros to weigh as much as a single RECoil guide AND like Bobby said, the closer spacing of the micro layout will all but eliminate windknots when using braided lines. I have also found that the casting distance is greatly improved as well.

No doubt in my mind which one would be more sensitive AND a better performer. I also believe that the micros may actually be more durable. The extremely low profile seems to keep them out of harm's way much more so than a traditionally sized guide ... even a partially flexible one.

In addition, the micros don't sing like a canary on booze when paired with braid. Definitely a plus, in my mind.

Like Tom said, the lightest configuration WILL be the most sensitive. Micro guides and tops have a wonderful way of leaving a blank the closest to its native design ... something that really benefits the super-high modulus blanks.

Jim, I'm not sure if it actually does take a handful of micros to weigh as much as a single Recoil. By my weighing, they are pretty similar depending on which Recoil you use. That said, my money would be on the micro being more sensitive but I've not tested them side by side. I think it would be so close that I can't tell.

Mo

There are far too many descriptions and interpretations of sensitivity in the bass world for a sane person to deal with. If you are drop shotting, finesse worm or shaky heading "sensitivity to feel" is best improved by reducing total weight added to a blank during build - if you are talking about sensitivity while flipping or punching grass sensitivity will be improved when the fish is flopping around in the bottom of the boat and the blank is still in one piece.

Probably the best advice for a builder to improve the "sensitivity" of rods is to buy a digital scale and use the lightest components that are functional - and second do not put anything on rod that does not perform a required function.

The reduction of troublesome wind knots when using micros on baitcasters is due to the size of the smaller rings reducing lateral line motion which improves line "taming/control" and has very little to do with guide spacing. Observe the line flow from the pawl guide on the reel to the butt guide while someone else is making a long cast with a all same size micro on top while the lure is outbound. Compare what you see to a conventional rod and you will easily see the reason for the reduction in wind knots with the all micro on top set ups.

Thanks to all who responded! Your comments make complete sense and I have been and remain sold that lighter weight = greater sensativity concept. But there is one piece of this question I need to focus on a bit more.

My angler states that he can feel a nick in his line with the micros, but can't with the Fuji SIC, standard size guides, again both on an identical blank. I understand that is probably due to the recoils being lighter than the standard Fuji's, no argument there. But I am wondering if he should feel that same nick with micros? Per your previous responses if light weight = greater sensativity then he probably should. OK, I get that. However, in a published catalog for this rod with the recoils I see this statement, "Guides transmit tremendous sensitivity vs. ceramic guides, which act as an insulator; vastly improved strike transmission and bottom transmission."

I am asking if anyone has any experience to the validity of that statement? Or is that just marketing @#$%&? Because if this statement is true, wouldn't that make the recoils technically "more sensative" than a ceramic insert ring, micro or not?

Thanks again for all the advice! Much appreciated!
Jeff.

That's nonsense - marketing hype. The ring in a ceramic guide is extremely hard and rigid. It might act as an insulator if we were trying to pass an electric current through it, but we're not. Guides aren't "sensitive." It is simply their weight that makes the difference once on the rod.

Whichever guides prove to offer the lightest combination will create the rod with the greater sensitivity (feel).

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Thank you Tom! That's what I figured. If the Recoils were better in the some way to other ring types I'm sure you'd have put that word out a long time ago. I knew you'd have the answer, you always do!

Thanks again!
Jeff.

I didn't say they were better, or worse. I only mentioned that the lighter combination would be more sensitive (feel). And sensitivity is only one aspect of overall rod performance.

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I think they can claim more sensitivity because ceramic will dampen high frequency vibrations where the recoils will not, I think this is why noisy braided line is noisier on recoils then ceramic. I also think what Tom said is correct fishing just doesn't make that kind of high frequency and lighter is the answer.