On the very small micro guides, have users found any problem with durability? Not suggesting there are any issues here but before I take the plunge I would like to know if there is anything to watch out for. Not sure I can put a Forhan wrap on something so tiny!

Now on the very, very, very, very teeny tiny ones there appears to be no ring------------- how does line hold up in the frames and do the frames groove? Not sure I understand the concept behind the no ring micro guide.

Define "very, very, very, very teeny tiny" - Which size are you referring to? Brand?

You can do a locking wrap.

I've only had one ring failure so far on Batson micros. This is with over 500 micros out there this year alone. I feel like that's a managable number of failures.

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I'm with Alex, very few failures. Mine have been the unbraced Batson tips and it's only 2 out of about 40 rods out there. I'll add that many of the guys I build rods for are full time guides and the abuse they and their clients can put on rods is unbelievable. I'm very happy with only 2 failures but sure would like to see an option for braced micro tops, hint hint ;) .

Yes, you can.
I do Forhan wrap on 3.5size micro guides.
The only my problem is with micro top frame, keep on bending because no ring frame support.

Freddy.

Not only is it possible but it should be considered mandatory to utilize the Forhan locking and security wraps when using the MICRO guides. We all owe Rich a thank you for starting the locking wrap style - micros rods would never have gotten off the runway if not locked. I am able to get two locks and a minimum of two security wraps on Amtak, Batson and Fuji 3.5 and larger frames. For maximum secruity you should pay close attention and insure at least one of the locks is on the vertical frame riser. The failure rate of these guides appears to be smaller than on larger guides sizes due to less mechanical damage from hang up and other accidental banging around. All the manufacturers have done an extremely good job of qualty control for ring stability in the frame mounts. These tiny things are brutally resistant to damage when wrapped and finished properly.

Rob-
You mentioned guides with no rings-if there are any like that I'm not aware of them-no grooving problems at all with the ringed ones I've used. Their smaller profile make them less likely to be damaged by misuse. Forhan wrapping no more difficult than on larger guides-when you get to that point you are past the harder part-getting them properly secured to the blank prior to wrapping. Once you get used to using them in appropriate situations those bigger sizes are tough to look at.

I've built a few for a pretty serious inshore here in Florida and he hasn't had any issues. I've found that work best for him, as well as myself, is a 4. They pass the leader knots well and have held up to 40+ cobia, way over slot reds and jacks without any failures.

The only Micro guides with out ceramic inserts are the Fuji 1mm's I can not say how they would hold up as I’ve not used them

Been building and using Micro's down to 1.5mm for over three years now in tournament competition along with some built for other competitors.

One failure; 2.5mm my fault ring came loose (forgot to tie rod down when I got to the boat landing it was hanging by the guide up against my depth finder.) The little sucker sacrificed its life to save my rod from flying out.

One failure; 3mm ring came loose supper glued it back, been fine for 2 years

One failure; 2mm noticed I could move an insert so I supper glued it no further problems

One tip failure; my fault knocked the ring out after repeatedly reeling a swivel into it over a period of days. Fast reel and watching for the next place to cast instead of approaching swivel.

Over the same time period I’ve replaced more 6mm guides and up and tips then I care to count

I have had one guide failure of a 3mm batson. The ring popped out of the frame after being bent numerous times removing my flipping rod from my rod locker. To be fair...this is a common occurance in my boat for all rods w/ size 6 guides.

I did however just pop inserts in the Batson unbraced top's this past weekend in a tourny. I put these tips on two rods before my first tournament at the end of March, I wanted to see how long they would hold up....not long. One was a drop shot rod that has seen use only about 12-15 fishing day. The other was a crankbait rod that gets used extensively. It seems that the constant bending and rebending of the frame caused it to warp and allow the ring to slide out.....could be easily resolved with a brace....HINT HINT

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

I would appreciate more comment on why a Forhan wrap is necessary on a guide so small that it hardly can be snagged on anything and is embedded in a gob of epoxy that is about as big as the guide itself. It just seems illogical. I must be missing something - it wouldn't be the first time.

Michael,
I don't do a forhan wrap on my rods. I tried it on the first few and just have not found it necessary. I have yet to have a guide pull out of the thread. I also don't like the effect of finish climbing up the security wraps on the guide foot.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Michael, apparently seeing the coments, the Forhan wrap is not a necessity, but due the the short foot and the taper of the foot from the tip to the ring, the extra wrap is cheap and easy insurance.

I try to keep the "gobbing" to a minimum and babysit mine pretty closely for a while to keep finish from climbing the leg. I had a size 3 ripped out recently that was Forhan wrapped. Apparently 65 lb braid was wrapped around the leg when hook was set-pulled it out like the old "string tied between a tooth and the doorknob" home dentistry trick. Only plausible explanation. Could not have happened in rod locker-the rod won't fit in a 7' locker.