Building up a 9' #5 fly rod and want the best possible guides. Ceramics seem heavy to me. Am I wrong? Snakes may wear or groove over some time. Again, am I wrong about this?

Was thinking that the Recoil fly guides might give the best all around performance due to low weight and non grooving properties. Don't like the high cost but what else is out there that gives the best of all worlds?

There are pros and cons to any guide type you select.

I don't think ceramics are heavy, provided you size them wisely. I use them on 3-weight rods and can keep the whole set up as light as if I had used snake guides. You shouldn't have to use very large guides on your 5-weight rod so I don't think weight is going to be much of an issue.

The Recoils are very nice guides, if you can stand the cost. Although on a decent blank which you expect to use for many, many years down the road, the cost really isn't that great. I would make the same statement about top line titanium frames with good SIC or Cermet ceramic rings.

If you really do want the lightest possible guides, but with no grooving and low cost, I'd take a look at the Pacific Bay Minima 4 fly rod guides. I've been giving these a look lately and I think they could really offer the best overall compromise of weight, durability and cost, of any guide type out there for fly rod use. I mention the 4 series over the 3, because for the cost difference I'd rather have the double swaged ring.

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Recoil guides are hands down the lightest when comparing guides of equal opening size. They are at least 1/3 the weight of comparable guides in my experience. On a 5 wt. the Recoil's "groove factor" should be a non-issue in most people's lifetime.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2009 12:00PM by John Krukemeier.

"Best possible guides" and "cheap" do not go together very well. Here was my solution. I have the single foot Recoils on one of my rods and while they ARE lightweight they sure do "sing" when the line pulls through them. So much so that on my next lightweight 3wt rod I used the smallest steel snake guides I could find. I shortend the feet on them to make them lighter. I used minimum silk to wrap them. A touch of finish to seal the silk was all I used. I'm very pleased with the result. They are light and quiet. Line seems to shoot fine despite the small size. Very cheap. So go small. 4/0 and 3/0. I use a Fuji Ti sic single foot 8 for a stripper. On my next flyrod (every rodbuilder starts his next rod the second the finish on his last rod is dry to the touch) I might do the Fuji concept route. Remember when building a rod every fraction of a ounce you save ads up and in the end make the difference between just another rod and rod that is a joy to use.

Again, if you haven't taken a hard look (actually held them in your hands) do not overlook the Minima 4 guides.

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I have used light recoils on 8 ft 3 wt and have not experienced the "singing." One solution is to use the heavy saltwater recoils which I am told will eliminate the "singing." There is not much difference in mass between the light and heavy recoils and the price is the same. Tom's suggestion looks interesting but I could not locate a price for the Pac Bay minima guides. I find the gold inserts in the 3 to be interesting.

Grooving of the guides on most fly rods isn't even an issue.
The guides primarily see only the fly line which is too soft to create grooves in the guides.
The Recoil single foot guides IMO are the best choice because of how quickly the rod tip reacts and the reduced swing weight. The noise is an issue but can be reduced by fly line selection.
To minimize cost I only use the Recoils for the top 3 to 4 guides using single foot steel for the remainder with a double foot alox stripper. Weight vs inside dia the Recoils are very hard on the competition.

Tom:

"Pacific Bay Minima 4"

Where away?

Search of Pac Bay site plus Goggle search and brief review of some sponsors sites do not show the above.

here is a site for guide weights: [rodcomponents.koolhost.com]

Bill - willierods.com

Fly rods guides are prone to grooving because fly line picks up a great deal of miniscule grit and debris, which then turns the fly line into a file of sorts. This is why stainless and chrome pear tops are so quick to groove and cut.

The Minima 3 guides do come in more colors, but the ring is only swaged on one side. For the tiny price difference between them, the Minima 4 series makes more sense, to me anyway. They're very light - think ceramic guide with no ceramic ring involved.

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Any sponsor who carries them and would like to chime in I would appreciate it. How does this mounting system compare to say a BLAG guide?

Richard,
Go to the Pac Bay web site and download the Product Catalog which is a PDF file. The Minima3 and Minima 4 guides begin on page 16. You can also down load the MSRP price list as well.

Mike Blomme

Thank you.

Tom:
What is a - pear top - ?

Bill - willierods.com

The standard fly tiptop that's been around for about 75 or 80 years now. The loop comes out of the tube, makes a turn (loops) and then goes back into the tube. It results in a pear shape, rather than a round shape.

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Never herd it called that Usually just large loop or standard loop wire

Bill - willierods.com