Like the rest of us, I guess, I read these boards and see that a lot of guys do some things in very different ways. And that's OK -- guys fish in different ways, and we all have our own ways of doing things.

When I see someone doing something different from what I do, I try to figure out why they're doing it, and then see if that reasoning might make what I do better. I think it's good to be constantly questioning what you do, and why you do it -- doing so keeps you on your toes, and prevents you from becoming set in your ways. And as we all know (or should know), a good rodbuilder isn't afraid to be critical of himself. But there's an issue that has me scratching my head.

I'm an avid surfcaster, and an avid builder of surf plugging rods, and it never ceases to amaze how much philosophical differences there are in where guys put the butt guide on a spinning surf plugging rod. I see distances like 48 inches or more, and these seem ridiculously too large to me -- but maybe I'm missing something.

I have my own ideas about this subject, and I'll chime in later, but I want to ask all the skilled rodbuilders out there: where do you put the butt guide on your surf plugging sticks? And -- more important -- why do you put it there? I know that some factors (reel size, type of line, etc.) will affect butt guide placement, but these factors can't account for the difference between a butt guide at 24 inches and one at 50 inches. If there's a range that you look for -- say 30-36 inches -- why do you like that kind of spacing?

What's your take? And why do you feel the way you do?

I use the NCG as outlined in the Volume 10 #4 issue of RodMaker. This will locate the butt guide, depending on guide height, at about 23 to 28 inches from the spool on the largest surf reels per the plotted line path. I generally try 2 different sizes (one will fall on the path a little farther up than the other), and settle on the one that offers the best overall distance. If the distance is about the same, I use the one that seems smoothest.

My guess from many years of casting all manner of surf rods, is that on any rods where the butt guide is out beyond 30 inches from the reel, you're going to experience a good deal of line slap against the blank, particularly with heavier or stiffer line.

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IMO and from my personal observations, putting the butt guide too far out from the reel allows the line to billow outward in a large radius. Line slap on the blank is indeed a problem on any rods where I have tried to move the butt guide too far out, or used a lower frame guide with a very large ring. The concept of getting the line under control quickly seems sound, provided you can keep it up and away from the rod blank. This means a smaller ring on top of a higher frame which is then placed closer to the reel.

I bring the line in close to the blank quickly using size 20 lowrider guide but I only build for braids

I know what a Surf rod is, but what the heck is a Surf Jigging rod. I thought Jigging was done vertically not horizontally. What am I missing here.

Good Wraps Bob

Robert, Who said Jigging rod?

I build mostly surf and I pretty much think the same way Tom does. As far as guide ring size... I test.. even if I build two of the same I'll test them both. I have found that a size 50 ring is never needed. A size 40 is very rare. A size 30 is most common and size 25 has been used. I just want the line as it spirals off to straighten out as fast as it can. A small as possiable butt guide and a checked distance fron reel face helps to do this.

My mistake. But what is a surf plugging rod

Good Wraps Bob

A surf plugging rod is generally a light casting or spin rod, from 8 to 11 feet long (9 feet has traditionally been the most popular) used for casting and retrieving lures/plugs in the surf, from jetties, etc.

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Hummm Up North when we fish the surf we use just enough weight to let it drift bait thought the pot holes or stay stationary an let the current or tide do the work. Some use rubber lures. No one up here uses pluges. We are fishing Sea Perch , Sea Bass and Lings. We just call our rods Surf rods

Good Wraps Bob

Chris,
I place the other guide on the rod, such that the guides will allow the loaded rod to follow the contour of the blank.
Then, I will take a straight edge and go from the tops of the two rear most mounted guides and run it to the top of the spool on the reel.
I will place the butt guide that I am planning on using such that the top of the guide just touches the straight edge as I start from the reel and move it forward.

This may be at 20,30 or even 40 inches on a very long rod.

The goal of surf fishing is to get the line WAY out there.
The only reason to have the butt guide is to Just keep any line coils from slapping on the rod. With the weight etc. that is normally used on surf rods, wind and line billow is not normally an issue.

If in doubt - place your tip on down guides, leaving the butt guide off the rod.
Then, place the butt guide at 50 inches, 40 inches, 30 inches and 20 inches - test casting with a 4 oz weight and 50 lb line. I am assuming that you are speaking of a surf rod that is at least 13 feet long.
See, where any butt guide placement t on the rod casts better or worse.

Let us know what you find.

Remember, virtually all of these guide placements are going to be dependent on the particular blank being used, the particular guides and sizes being used, and finally the particular reel being used. All of these factors come in play - some more important and some less important in setting up the optimum guide placement.

Good luck
Roger

"A surf plugging rod is generally a light casting or spin rod, from 8 to 11 feet long (9 feet has traditionally been the most popular) used for casting and retrieving lures/plugs in the surf, from jetties, etc. "

Surf plugging, also known as surface plugging, is referred to as whipping in Hawaii. Some people are using up to 13' rods.

Here's a link that may be of interest. The lures are made of ceramic and are quite popular. I have no affiliation with Mark White.

[markwhitelures.com]

Hope you find it of interest.

Don

Don Becker