Todd,
I watched the video and was very excited to have another method for applying Abalone and bending the veneer without cracks to blanks. I took a 50 class standup tuna blank and applied veneer to the buttwrap section. I followed the video and heated with a heat gun on low. I experienced less than acceptable results with cracks in the veneer that run up and down the entire piece of veneer from end to end. I experienced cracks that are about 1/16th" apart and consistent. I slowed down the rate of rotation of the blank and also experimented with more heat and did not see any variance in results. This is an offshore rod so OD is not an issue. From what I saw, the laminate bent, but the shell cracked horribly. I used Aqua Blue Maui shell on the butt wrap and the other brand on the stripper guide section.

Any insight to this is appreciated.

Here is a photo.
[www.rodbuilding.org]
Kevin Knox



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2009 08:22PM by kevin knox.

Seems the results of the heat gum method are like the rythem method. Sometimes it works! Kevin glad to see you are still exploring different methods and dispelling more myths. I hope you can get to the bottom of this failure quickly.

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

I saw a guy who used Abalone on his custom pens. He installed it on the thin diameter pen tube by laser cutting the piece so that itcould be "rolled". The results were hexagonal (or whatever a 12 sided polygon is called, tetragonal maybe?). I guess some people don't mind that look, but I know it stood out like a sore thumb to me and I didn't like it one bit.

Billy its called a Dodagon. Everyone knows that! lol.

Kevin:
Did both brands of shell crack using the heat gun method?
I just got some through the mail the other day & I have watched the video a couple of times.
I was planning on putting it on a rod this weekend......
Don't know what I should do now.....

Yes, Both brands. In conversation with someone from Mudhole, they said that they saw "horizontal" cracks (cracks that run up and down the blank) in the veneer doing it this way. Jon, I recommend vinegar for best results.

3 days for laminated veneer and 90 minutes for raw. But if you have the mudhole veneer, veneer fracture is your option.

See the photo's that I posted. If the cracks are fine with you (some like it), then thats a fine option for you.

Its a shame because I was psyched about being able to just pull out the veneer and cut and place it.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Kevin



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2009 10:45PM by kevin knox.

Kevin:
I have the mud hole veneer.
Is that considered laminated or raw? Or is my only option the "cracked & crinkled" look with this product?
If I soak it how will it affect the glue on the back?
What happens when you finish over this particular veneer (I use Aftcote)?
Obviously the cracks will still be visible but will they be more "sedate"?
Sorry if I sound like my 2 1/2 year old grandson with all the questions...I'm just trying to figure out if I want to use it on these Batson RCLB 7 & 8 ft. medium rods I'm doing for a buddy.
Thanks,
Jon

I don't know what you bought. Is is colored? Is it shiny? If it is raw (you can feel the shell when you rub your fingers over it, then don't soak it. Does the backing have the "3m" logo on it? If you soak it, it has absolutely no affect on the adhesive.

When you finish over raw veneer, it goes from completely dull to brilliant shiny.

I don't think the cracks will disappear, but the will be more sedate with 2-3 coats of finish.

If you ask me "Are we there yet?", Im gonna reach back there and give you something to think about!!!"

Kevin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2009 07:11AM by kevin knox.

I have 2 rods that I placed THEN-LAM on and the finished size of the abalone were 10mm and 9.7mm I had no cracks that were visible before the finish was applied. The rod which had the 9.7mm finished abalone was a "Custom Builder Rod Blank" from Mud Hole it is a IS561L 5' 6" 2-4 line wt blank in pink. I used the three day soak method with no problems. I have tried the heat gun method and results as Kevin, cracks and It did not seem to lay flat. I am still trying to get the heat gun method to work If one can do it why can't someone else?

Kevin:
Sorry, I forgot that they sold both types.
The front appears to be coated and smooth, I couldn't feel the abalone when I rub it.
It has the 3M logo on the back.
It is the one they advertised to be applied with the heat gun and their description is: "Abalone Shell Inlay Strip".
I got it in orange and gold.

I've been known to pull over, jump out, open the back door & just stare at the little terror.
They get real quiet, real quick.

Thanks,
Jon

You have thin lam. 3 day soak will take care of it for you.

Good luck.

Kevin

I have done several applications with Kevin's method of soaking in vinegar. I have followed his instructions both from the article he sent me and the video. I tried the soak times from the minimum to the maximum he recommends. It all cracks. There was no discernible difference between the veneer that was soaked for the shortest time nor the longer. The only difference I can see is that the longer it soaks the darker it gets overall. I did 2 small pieces on a gaff handle as an experiment. I soaked one and not the other. You can't tell the difference in the 2 applications. All 4 applications were on blanks from about 5/8 to 3/4 in diameter. All that said, no matter what your results are , the ab is still beautiful, cracks or not. I'm going to try the Mud Hole product next week. I'll post up an honest report after that.

John

It doesnt crack once you get the hang of it.

Its a delicate process and given a lot of time and repetition, you will become more comfortable with working with it. Practice makes perfect in this application. You will see in the attached photo that there are no cracks and this is on a butterfly jigging blank. It is just under 1/2".

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Kevin

I think that the term "crack" may be what we're discussing. I see the same cracks or fold lines in your sample as I'm seeing in my work.

John

What you're seeing there are not cracks - those are the subtle lines between the abalone pieces that are set into the laminate. You will see them in your flat veneer stock even before you attempt to bend it.

........

No, I know what the laminate lines are and look like before and after application. What I'm seeing is cracks. The method I'm using to minimize the APPEARANCE of the cracks is to roll the wrap on a hard very smooth surface prior to wrapping with the retaining thread. It mashes all the highs and ribs to a smooth surface again. After finishing you can barely see them but they are there.

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. You might be onto something.

............

I'll do a video and charge everybody $40.00 !!!!

Two things - First why not put up a photo so folks can see how well your method works.

Second, you don't want to continue taking cheap shots at people here. It will be detrimental to your continued participation on this forum.

..............

Tom,
I sent you some pix as I don't know how to post them to the group. Feel free to post them up if you wish.

Second, that wasn't meant as a cheap shot. Sorry if it was perceived that way.

Maybe I can get some help from one of my computer guru friends and do up a U-Tube follow up type video on both the vinegar and the heat method. I have some AB coming from MH and I will report back with the results.

John