I have searched and read but cannot fefinitively answer a question about guide weights. I recently built up (2) 5wt 9'0', 4 peice moderate fast to fast fly rods. I dentical except for guides. On the first I used:
(1) LNSJ12 Fuji concept cast guide (stripper)(double foot)
(1) LNSJ10 ditto
(1) LSG-8J Fujii SIC concept fly guide (single foot)
(7) LSG-6J ditto
(1) FST-6-4.5 Fuji SIC concept fly tip top

On the second rod:
(1) GCUE12 ATC TiChrome frame, gold ring (double foot)
(1) GCUE10 ditto
(1) GZTF8 Ceramic ring gold (single foot)
(7) GZTF8 ditto
(1) GZTF-6-4.5 ATC Ceramic zirconium fly top gold

I can not find the weights for these anywhere. Can someone please help? The rods are finished, ready to be fished. But I am having second thoughts about the guide weights vs single foot wire guides (except for the double foot) and a wirwe ring tip top.

Have I significantly altered the way the rod(s) will cast?
Will it change the action and/or line weight?
How do these weights compare to conventional wire guides with comparable ring sizes?
And finally, Should I rebuild with wire guides?
I really like the look now as opposed to wire butI am no expert. I am willing to listen and learn.
Thanks guys

The blanks you used are not identical, so keep that in mind. The way rod blanks are made precludes any pair from being absolutely identical.

The weight differences involved here are not enough to undermine anything. I might have used smaller running guides than you did but that's about it.

Weight does not affect rod action, but it does affect rod speed - the reaction and recovery time. The more weight you add the less responsive a rod will be.

Add enough component/guide weight and it will indeed reduce the line weight that the rod can successfully carry and cast. I do not believe you did that with your guide choice. Again, the only thing I might change would be the size of the running guides on the 2nd rod. Size 6's should be more than enough and you might even try size 5's or 4's.

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Remember that a fly rod the line is held in hand and shot from the hand. So all those guides are not needed. Your hand controls the line no pigtails. You might have gone 10 - to 6, or 5's on both depending on the knots passing throw the guides.

They don't look as pretty but I always go Ti guides.

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2009 11:05AM by bill boettcher.

You can expect the rod to react much slower.
Mending will be more difficult and accuracy will degrade waiting for the rod to finish the casting stroke.
For the ID of the guides versus the weight it's hard to beat single foot titanium.
Ceramic guides have their place if you fish for species where the fly line is mostly beyond the tip top and the fish is being fought against the backing running thru the guides. For casting efficiency and accuracy keep the tip as light as possible and the rod will respond faster and more controllably. This improves damping, accuracy, sensitivity and improves casting feel and distance.

The first rod would probably be OK,although I would spend the extra money on the lighter titanium framed SIC's if it were me,and "maybe" even go with size 5.5 for the running guides on a 5wt.That said,6's work fine for most people and I've used 6's on a few 6wts and been happy enough with them(although I wish I had used a lighter tip top than the ones I chose at the time).

I would use different guides and definitely different sizes on the 2nd rod though.

I've used a set of the TiCH frame/zirconium ring guides on a couple of 5wts before(I too really liked the "look") and the rods were very sluggish compared to the same rods with wire guides,and that was when using size 6 running guides.With size 8 TiCH frame/zirconium ring guides on a 5wt the rod would be a total dog IMHO.

All of the rods(2 5wts,2 6wts,and a 7wt) that I've built with the TiCH frame/zirconium ring guides are in the middle of being stripped down and re built with lighter guides.I really like the look of them,especially the gold and the holographic ring guides,and will continue to use them for stripper guides,but the extra weight of them as running guides is just too noticeable for me.

Also for price check out the Ti guides from American Tackle with a Fuji Ti top

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Doug, Just my two cents worth, but I'd get rid of all the 8's on the second rod and replace them with single foot wire (Ti gold would go well with your strippers; say a #4, followed by #2's or #1's to the tip). Maybe even replace the tip with a Ti gold hayfork tip. I always think it is pointless using a tip that is smaller than the running guides anyway. Now you have two very similar blanks with (probably) noticeably different recovery/response times. Have a go with both and see what you think. For some blanks and some casters, slowing down the recovery may actually be beneficial (eg a Sage TCR), whereas others will hate the difference and will want the blank as unencumbered by swing weight as possible. You can then see if you like that particular blank with ceramics or with wire. I personally never use ceramics below a 6 weight, but that's just me and what is a '6 weight 'anyway? The cc database shows huge variations in terms of what different '6 weight' blanks will carry line-wise from different manufacturers - your #5's may be relatively unaffected by the extra weight of ceramics. Hexagraphs are a good example - the blank design is so intrinsically powerful that their recovery/responsiveness seems relatively unaffected by the weight of the guides used. A 5 weight 'Hex' feels pretty much the same with wire or ceramics, whereas a 5 weight Gatti changes enormously. Horses for courses. At the end of the day, #8 running guides are probably adding too much unnecessary weight to something that is nominally a 5 weight however. Finally, I'd also recommend using CP on any rod that is likely to be a bit 'experimental' and may need to be rebuilt in future - it makes it much easier to peel off your bindings without affecting the coating of the blank. Good luck, Jim