Is this Dumb or what?? I did not write it!!

The 27X thing has taken on a life of its own. I'm pretty sure I know where it started and I will tell you that I saw a post, some months ago (not on this BBS) where someone had done the math and came up with the fact that on a 7-ft rod, if he used this formula, he ended up with the first guide five feet up the rod - all the guides would have to fit into the last two feet of the stick.

John;
I don't think it dumb.
I think its ignorance caused by people not reading the facts in the original article or asking questions to get the correct information, before they make comments, post on the web, or write articles based on miss information.
Unfortunately those who read this stuff not knowing what the original article stated are doomed to continue in the ignorance.

You can always find both good and bad information on the internet. The important thing is to be able to tell the difference!

Looks like whoever wrote that is a little behind the times and just did not understand how to set the guides using that system. Any time the first guide winds up that far from the reel you should be able to look and know that something is wrong.

Such statements are out in left field and are coming from those who haven’t actually read the article or viewed the illustrations that went along with it. Let’s stop short of calling them dumb and simply label them “uniformed.”

The writer has mistaken the butt guide for the choker guide. They are not the same thing. The 27X factor isn’t used for locating the butt guide, it’s used for locating the choker guide. A lot of people that haven’t actually read the article make this mistake. Bob McKamey said several of the guys at his event this past weekend had their butt guide in the choker guide location. It’s a common mistake and another reason to get good information before you dive in.

It is impossible that the NGC system would ever locate the butt guide on a rod more than about 16 to 28 inches from the reel spool face, and that’s with the very smallest to the very largest spinning reels in use today. The idea that it would somehow place it 5 feet up the rod from the reel is silly.

Nor is the NGC used with the 27X factor any sort of generic formula - it is fully interactive, at least as much as static stress distribution testing is. It sets the spacing on your rod based on your reel spool size and reel height, which are two of the major factors to be considered in any good guide set-up. With generic type spacing charts or formulas, all rods of the same length get the same guide spacing regardless of the handle length, reel used, action, etc. Not so with the NGC. It takes these things into account interactively and gives you a starting guide set-up that is squarely in the ballpark right out of the gate. Obviously, wise builders will feel free to tweak and fiddle with things to better suit the particular line they may be using. The smaller and more supple the line, the smaller the butt guide you can employ and the closer to the reel the choker guide can be.

The key to the system is its greater efficiency. Any time you remove weight from the rod, particularly near the upper half of the rod, you have a rod that will react and recover more quickly, balance better and because more of your imparted energy can go into casting the lure instead of starting and stopping the rod, casting distance is increased. Even then it's important to be objective. A 5% increase is normal and may not sound like much, but anytime you can reduce weight, better balance the rod, gain more sensitivity and increase distance all at the same, well...

We can argue that bias-ply tires are just as good or better than radials, because they both roll. But one ride on both tells the difference between how they roll. The best Cone-of-Flight set up, objectively compared to the best NGC set up, tells the tale. Try both and see which you feel works better. Just get good information before you start. If you're locating your 1st guide 5 feet from the reel face, you're off to a bad start.


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I have been giving it a go on a Talon surf blank and so far find it very sensical and effective. Still waiting on some smaller runners and will try again once they arrive. My only thought is why wasn't this thought of sooner?

Once something works, most folks never attempt to find anything that works better. "Good enough" is human nature. If you took all the millions of various worthwhile innovations made throughout human history, you'd find that they all came from a relatively tiny percentage of all the people who have ever trod the planet.

The NGC has been around longer than you might think. Fuji had published the original concept by the mid-1990s. The first time I played around with it I was struck by how much sense it made and how well it worked. After building my first one, all my previous spinning rods, some 20 years worth, were mothballed. I've not used one since.


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I was not agreeing with it just putting it out there for others to see. One guy even has a spinning reel with a 6.5" spool diameter!!

If you can successfully use the small micro type guides the benefits loom even larger. I have been able to use Baton size 3 micros on the choke and running guides and the tip is almost as lively as it was out of the bag! Getting rid of that excess guide weight on the top half of the rod is key to having a more crisp feeling and acting rod. The old cone of flight type system works but really weighs the rod down with additional weight. My spinning rods with the NGC and micros feels almost like the bare blank did before I started building it.

An Alvey or mooching type reel might have a spool that large, but you'd be hard pressed to find a true spinning reel with a 6-1/2 inch diameter spool. The writer was either just tossing a make-believe figure out there or he may not understand the difference between diameter and circumference.

I own several extremely large spinning reels. One is a Daiwa GS9, the largest spinning reel that Daiwa ever made. The spool has a 2-3/4 inch diameter. The largest ancient Quick's I have, huge reels, have spools of from 2-1/2 to 2-7/8 inch diameters. Even the U.S. Reel Company, makers of today's largest spinning reel spools, only advertise their largest spool as having a 2.5 inch diameter.


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While on the topic and for the sake of argument to make sure I have a good understanding, can anyone advise on the following two situations?

1- Two rods using the same reels and same line. But one rod is 7’ and one rod is 9’. Will the guide spacing and number differ?

2- When using a large HD saltwater spinner and a shorter 5’ or 6’ stand up type rod used for fighting large fish, if the choke guide placement is off the rod tip, what do you do? Move the choke guide closer?

The Daiwa DF100A GIANT is advertised as being the largest spinning reel in the world. It’s huge! The spool diameter is 3.5”.

What many propoents of the Cone of Flight System do not understand, is that the New Guide Concept IS the Cone of Flight System as far as the guides between the reel and the choker guide are concerned. The system just brings the line under control sooner instead of using the entire rod length to do it. The NGC is a proven system and has been for over a decade. Arguing over whether or not it works well would be like arguing over whether you can successfully talk to another person on a cell phone. That road has already been paved many times over.

Barry,

1. If you’re using the same reels and the same line, then the guide set up from the butt to the choker guide will be indentical on both rods. The reel does not care how long the rod is. However, the longer rod will require additional running guides to account for the longer length.

2. The choker guide needs to be a certain distance from the reel. It’s not an arbitrary thing so you can’t just move it closer (unless you’ve tried it and found that it still works well for your particular set up). On such an extreme pairing of a very large reel on a very short rod, if the choker location falls beyond the rod tip, then your tiptop is your choker guide. You set things up between the reel and the choker (tiptop) as normal and omit any running guides - they’re not needed.


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