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CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: armand flies (86.96.227.---)
Date: May 03, 2009 11:21AM

I have an 8' 80lb popping blank from CTS. Just wondering whether anyone on here may have guide spacing for this rod?

Much appreciated
Armand

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: Mike Barkley (---.try.wideopenwest.com)
Date: May 03, 2009 11:48AM

Personally, I would avoid any generic spacing charts. Will it be spinning or casting? I would let the reel and static testing dictate the guide sizes and spacing. Read the article on static testing and, if spinning, the article on New Guide Concept in the Library at the top of the page. Since you are going to build a custom rod, why not build it for optimum performance?

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2009 12:03PM by Mike Barkley.

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 03, 2009 11:57AM

Armand,
As the other post suggests, simply put enough guides on the rod and in the right place so that the line follows the contour of the blank, under stress. If the blank bends a lot in a particular place, put more guides in that place. If the blank bends less, put fewer guides in that location.
Take care
Roger \

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: armand flies (86.96.226.---)
Date: May 03, 2009 05:00PM

Dear Mike and Roger,

Thanks for your replies. I am familiar with the static guide placement routine. My concern is flexing this blank by the tip guide only, the blank is so stiff I am worried about damaging the MNST tip guide with the amount of force required to bend this bad boy into the middle area.

Yes, it is a spinning rod, but I am not sure if the guide concept is relevant here, the guy will be using 100lb+ braid and over 200lb leaders for big GT, so the guides will have to a be 100% correctly spaced to protect the blank during fighting. (They have boxes full of broken carpenters and smiths)

Armand

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: May 04, 2009 10:40AM

Armand,
One thing that some folks do is to take a rope or equivalent and place it essentially in the center of a very robust rod.
Then, bracing the tip against the floor and the butt against a stand or corner, use the rope to deflect the rod.

You can tie off the rod when it is sufficiently deflected to establish the guide location. Mark the locations and wrap them up.

Lets face it - this rod which has been designed for BIG fish, had certainly better be able to take a reasonable amount of deflection. After all, it is going to experience this on every excellent fishing day in its pursuit for BIG fish.

Good luck
Roger
p.s.
If you do a search, you can find some other type of blank deflectors that are used in the industry as well as by individual builders.
Some folks use a series of wedges or other type retainers on a wall, so that the deflection is started at the tip, and then the deflection works down the blank, bracing each point on the rod as it gets to the next deflection point.

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: Rohit Lal (---.NSW.netspace.net.au)
Date: May 04, 2009 01:41PM

Armand
PE8+ and very heavy wind trough leaders and poppers in the 150g+ class make for a lot of line turbulance. I believe setting up the guides in this case for clean long casts is the 1st priority. I have seen cases where guide damage has resulted from bad casts due to tangles, such is the force with the big lures. There is the added risk of injury if the casts go pear shaped

Six guides starting with a 40 to a 16 and a 16 tip at the will be sufficient for the casting aspect. You may even be able to cut it back to 5 guides depending on how much balls the blank has and its action. 5 are generaly sufficent for the popular 7'8" size. The 10k+ stellas and the bigger saltigas have enough offsett to pretty much ensure that once you have the casting part clean, the guides would pretty much fall into place for a good safe load. The things to look out for are, keep the 40 as close to the reel as you can get away with while maintaining clean long casts. The big 40 diameter and height is used here so you can keep it close and with the progressive actioned blank that is correct for this form of fishing you can then start loading it from a lower point to get the most of the power from it. A blank capable of casting such heavy lures is not going to have a brittle or noodle tip. You can very well start with around 160mm from the tip to the first 16

Use the above as a guide and sort out the casting side first. Then come the part where you need to do almost destruction tests to adjust the guides for the best compromise between loading and casting. Do not take this step lightly as the elements involved with this form of fishing are in the extreme

The GT type blanks are capable of some serious bends but like most other rods will not be happy with high sticking. Some more then most. A lot of the breakages are due to this as its not that easy to break these rods under corrent load angles. I think some customer education might also be handy as well as a demonstration as to whats acceptable use just to keep your end safe. Once you have demonstrated that the rod is within parrameters then the customer should accept that the blank and the build is sound.

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Re: CTS Popping Blank and Guide Spacing
Posted by: Denis Brown (---.nsw.bigpond.net.au)
Date: May 04, 2009 05:59PM

Armand
No worries with that tip during test loading , just pass the string thru the tip & tie off on the blank behind the guide with a Uni or a Heinz Kleist knot .
The Kleist knot is the most reliable for such heavy loading exercises as it self tightens ( but comes off easily after load removal ).
If you are not familiar with the Kleist knot you will find it on the rock climbing sites.

Common cause of breakages in HD popping rods is simply not enough guides at the angle of attack in knock-down-drag-out encounters.
Highsticking is almost inevitable as the GT surges at the most inopportune times & you cannot afford to give an inch if the battle is to be won, in most cases.
Casting dynamic will not be unduly affected by 7 guides..............the rod will hardly notice the extras are there.( and you can use NSG in the top 2 )
The critical area is in the mid blank under load and near the tip in those snap casts with heavy bulky poppers.
Depends on the leader knot the angler prefers as to whether a #12 or #16 guide are the smallest used .
If the Angler uses a PR , a #12 is quite adequate........................#16 Tip

When setting up your guidetrain you can afford to move the stripper further forward than many tend to do as the blank is incredibly strong in that area.
This reduces guide separation forward from there and minimises highsticking forces( but is no complete solution to that issue )
Also means you can use a #30 stripper with good casting efficiency..............a #40 in the same place provides negligible increased casting efficiency.

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