I seem to be having problems applying CP. I have done about 5 tests in the last 3 nights and just can’t get it right. Maybe when I apply my epoxy tonight it will work but here’s the?. When you apply your First coat of CP do you totally saturate it to the point where it looks totally milky and then just leave that alone to spin on the dryer or do i wick off the excess let dry and then do a light coat? If I apply too much cp will it eventually turn clear or will it become lumpy and stay milky?

Right now I’ve been testing with Threadmaster CP because I cant seem to get my hands on the U40 locally so I have to wait till I place an order.

Note: the thread is Madeira


Any Tips I really don’t want to ruin my butt wraps.
Thanks..

Try applying light coats, and the rod needs to be spinning as you were wrapping when you apply not on drying speed. Try to get nice even coverage and two coats should be plenty letting it dry between coats. Remember too that by touching the threads after cp is dry it will blush or turn milky, at least with most cp's.



Dave



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2009 01:03PM by David Teague.

You can pour Flex-Coat CP on the thread and it will dry right. Threadmaster not so much. If you have it on to heavy it will dry lumpy and this will equate to a lumpy finish. Use two very thin coats. Threadmaster thread coating is fantastic but they fell short with they're color preserver.

Eric, You should saturate the threads but not flood them. There is no need to wick off the excess, depending on the temp you are working in (optimium 70 deg.) in about an hour you can recoat, with the Madiera I would do 3 coats, Let it sit at least overnight before appling the ThreadMaster finish. The Chromaseal as with all CP's should be mixed throughtly before use, stirred and not shaken. Chromaseal will not turn milky it dries clear. It is the only CP on the market that once it is dry water cannot reactivate it. Thank you for trying Chromaseal and if you have any more wuestions please email me directly. Thanks Scott Parsons

You need to uniformly and fully wet the threads. They should turn dark, and uniform, when you apply the CP. If the thread isn't turning dark and uniform, you aren't applying enough. If the CP is running and dripping off the wrap, you're putting too much on.

1 coat is generally enough, but 2 isn't going to hurt anything.

.............

I think most CPs are alike however I use Flex Coat CP so I will discuss how I apply it to the thread work. My very first coat is diluted with a little water to make it thin enough to soak all the way through the threads and I put the first coat on very sparingly. If you put to much on the first coat it is possibel to have a slight shift of threads so a lite coat is important and that will seal the threads and prevent any movement. The succedeing coats can be with a little less water mixed in but I never use the CP at full strength . I also apply it to the work without the use of any type of motor because I apply it thin enough so that it doesn't run or lump up and this also avoids getting a milky effect that can show up when the finishing epoxy is applied.

I just put CP on the 3 wraps I posted in teh past couple of days. I used my stash of the GOOD Gudebrod 811S (Which I am going to get more of very soon), as well as the Kenny Mac CP which a fellow NERB from New Hampshire concocted himself and it works very good. Regardless of teh brand of CP you use, what works for me is a heavy saturating coat, applied with a brush like I'm painitng a picture. I turn teh rod by hand. I dip the brush abotu 1/2 way into teh CP, and blot it right in teh center of every repeat of teh pattern, then I brush it lengthwise on teh wrap (Iapply epoxy the same way). IT takes me abotu 90 seconds to coat teh entire wrap. When I get teh the end, I wick teh excess CP out of teh brush with a paper towel, then go back and start wicking off the excess. I go back over teh entire wrap, basicially rebrushing teh entire wrap with as dry a brush as possible.

I then do the same thing after teh CP dries. How long does CP take to dry.....tehre re PC answers where the person advising wants to make sure ther eare no problems for the person answerring teh question. FOr me CP is dry in less than 2 hours, I applied 2 coats to the 3 rods an hour apart this morning. I will apply finish in anohter hour or so, just to be "safe", after you use CP a few times you can tell how long it really takes, and when it is dry.

Thanks guys alot of great advice. I'll keep trying.

David above said to spin the rod at speed, is this what most people are doing? I have been applying the CP turning the rod by hand an then I was letting it spin for an hour till my second coat just for the heck of it.

Should I be brushing the threads like painting? I seem to get bubbles this way

Or lightly let it flow off the brush end like I do epoxy not really touching the threads?

The last test fisheyes Bad and also had micro bubbles but I think I went alittle too crazy with the heat and cooked it. The best part is its all tests and I'm just trying to learn how different CP and Finishes react with different variables

I have a few tests I did last night so I'll see what tonight brings.

I can see from above everyone kind of has there own way of doing things and hopefully I'll find what works for me.

I apply it in the same direction as the threads are wound. Dip the brush into the CP, hold it above the rod and lower it to the wrap as you rotate the rod. This results in fewer bubbles.

I've never had to spin or turn the rod once the CP has been applied. How much are you putting on there?

Be careful in thinning your CP. It's already mostly just water, and adding more water can mean that you're putting almost straight water on the thread.


...............

I'm just telling you what I do, some people hand turn, some don't I think the key here is to find a technique that works for you



Dave

Thanks again guys,

Billy I was typing while you posted but I think you answered most of my questions.

David, I understand who knows Maybe it will work for me too that’s the beauty of testing it cant hurt to try different approaches

Bubbles - my way DOES introduce bubbles. After you wick teh brush just pass the brush over the bubbles and tehy won't be ther any longer. AS Tom said, it does help to brush with teh direction of the threads, which is why where the threads crossover most of teh bubbles will form (and easily taken care of).

If you apply CP and there are bubbles there, espcially with teh old 811S - they will still be there once epoxy is applied, and they will show up as either bubbles, haze, or crystals.

No heat on CP, and no need to put it on a drying motor. 1 coat vs 2 - I used to do only 1 coat, but I have a whole bunch of test stick samples (which you woudl have seen in February at teh NERBs TRophy Tackle Gathering...instead you played slots, lol) that show a noticeable difference with 1 vs 2 coats - 2 coats giving a much better result. That is a direct contradition to what I had been posting a few years back.

Billy thats basically what I did last night. So tonight hopefully everything will workout ok. We'll see..
I didn't apply heat to the CP only the aftcote I guess I just really wanted to see how much it could take then it started drippind and flowing like water and I wisked it away.

I think because I was starting to get fisheyes that I just kept laying on the epoxy thicker and thicker to fill the voids but then with all that heat the micro bubbles were insane and just became one big mess....

Madeira threads?? Don't those have silicone on them so you gotta use a few coats of CP???

I replied on Noreast to you, and I'll do it here, too! I use the Chromaseal CP, I put a very heavy coat on after mixing well. I use a fairly high speed like if I was wrapping an underwrap and move the brush down the wraps. When I get done with the threads, I let it spin for another minute or two and make sure the threads darkened fully. Then I make sure the tunnels by the guide feet have CP in them. After that, I go to each wrap and where it's pooled up, I redistribute it with the brush and brush it out so it's a more even coating. Give it another minute or two, then it's time to get rid of the excess! I use the brush and while the rod is spinning, I hold the brush on the threads and move it slowly. When the brush starts to fill with CP, I wipe the brush off on a piece of paper towel and keep going. This way the stuff soaks into the threads, and I take the excess off so it won't lump up on me. It's worked so far for me!

I have been using Brilliance and Flexcoat. I thin it about 50% with water and do 2 coats thinned. I put it on very heavy and once all the wraps have been coated and soaked thoroughly . I dab off the excess I don't wipe, after an hour or so I will put on a second thinned coat. again once all the wraps are soaked I will dab off the excess. after about an hour I will put on one coat full strength and dab off the excess. This seems to give good coverage and also fills in the tunnel on the guide so I don't seem to have a bubble problem. I use either FC lite or TM lite. I like both don't see much difference between them. I only rotate by hand while putting the CP on then let it sit and dry. I usually wait 12 to 24 hours after the last coat before finishing.

Well tried a few more tests tonight and im not really happy with the results so far. For some reason I keep getting tiny bubbles in my finish and I don't know why. Could the finish have gone bad? I did put both parts in the microwave for 15 sec and i dont usually do that. I do remember using the same epoxy on my last rod i was having some issues with micro bubbles but was able to finish the rod after mixing about 4 different batches it seemed like every time i moved the brush tiny bubbles would appear till i just let it flow off the brush and never touch the thread.

Timothy how are you mixing your cp I tried rolling it, shaking it and stiring so far.....

Thanks again for all the help guys this is really driving me crazy........

You may be boiling the finish. That's too much heat. Most of the time, only the resin would need to be warmed and then only if it 's thick from being stored in a cold area.

Consult the online library here for a mechanical mixer that can help eliminate bubbles formed when mixing. Stirring introduces bubbles.

..............

Tom is right on the money. 15 sec in a microwave is too long. I put a 2oz bottle of TM in once for 10 sec and it was so hot i thought it might melt the bottle. Any more I will put the bottles in my shirt pocket for 15 or 20 min, or in a bowl of hot water for 5 or 10 minutes. I mix up a batch using 1.5cc of each. I tilt the cup slightly and stir gently rolling the cup slowly and occasionally wiping the cup walls with the edge of the stir stick. I mix for a couple of minutes then set the epoxxy set for 2 or 3 minutes to let any bubbles rise then blow on the surface this clears the bubbles out. The first thing I do when applying the finish (this is with or without CP) with the rod on the dryer motor with the guides up take a liberal portion of finish and dribble on the thread on top of the guide feet. this takes a minute or so and fives the finish time to work thru or around the guide feet into the tunnel. Once that is done I turn on the motor (6-7 RPM Rotisserie motor). Load the brush liberally( maybe even string some more accross the threads). I start applying finish just inboard of the foot end of the threads carrying a bead of finish on the brush i will move out to the end of the thread allowing the brush to carry a little finish off the end after one revolution the finish is even I start back toward the guide carrying that bead of finish (using the excess finish I put on the wraps to replenish the bead). I slowly move the brush toward the guide getting good coverage (don't worry about ridges in the finish) when I get to the guide end I let the brush overlap onto the rod again carrying the finish onto the rod pulling back a little so I don't get a lot of finish up the guide leg. Once the thread is covered I will use my brush in light horizontal strokes across the thread to level out the ridges. Just knock the high spots off the ridges as the finish will flatten itself. Once I have done all the guides I will come back look for bubbles and blow on all the wrap just in case there is a bubble I didn't see. Once I think I have all the bubbles I go get a beer and leave things alone for about 3 hours. I do come back and check on my motor ocassionally as it is about 40 years old and one of these days I will be back to hand turning the rod while curing. The whole process from mixing to final bubble release takes about 20 to 30 min depending on number of guides.

Remember this is supposed to be fun. So relax and enjoy. If there is a mistake you are the only person that will probably ever see it.

I always use an epoxy mixer to mix my finish and even If I did get a few bubbles from the syringe It usually took care of it. If not I would blow them out with a straw after pouring the finish out on the tinfoil.

Do you guys think the finish is Garbage now?

I only recently started having trouble with bubbles other than that I haven’t had any trouble applying epoxy. That’s what leads me to believe its either the CP or I cooked the Epoxy.

I hope I didn’t just smoke two big bottles of aftcote because I wasn’t watching the time on the microwave.

To mix the CP, I stick one of the yellow brushes into it and stir it like mad for a minute or so. Then apply. By wicking off the excess, there isn't enough CP left to bubble up.

Remember, the Madeira has some coating on/in it. You need to use a few coats of CP to fully seal it, so the epoxy will bond to the CP, not the threads! Try a different brand of thread and see what happens! Otherwise you will get the fish eyes and it will pull away from the threads in spots.