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Spinning rod guide quandry
Posted by: Warren (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 25, 2001 08:23PM

Now I remember why I despise building spinning rods! A friend has blessed me with a rod to build for him, a spinner. The blank is a Lami graphite Steelhead blank , GSH901MT, 1/4 to 13/4oz lures 8-17lb line. 71/2ft. For casting 5/16 to 1oz Yo Zuris + various and sundry other sweetwater lures in the briney for Stripers,blues,trout,etc. His reel of choice(he just bought it) is a Quantum Great White holding 225 yds of 12 lb mono. Line of choice is Offshore Angler Tight Line,12lb.
This reel has no "upsweep" in the head of the reel, many have 4deg.
This presents a problem with using the "Straight edge" method for locating the"choke point" for the line on the blank as it's about 6" from the tip. About the only thing I can figure to do is to mount the reelseat so that the "reel side of the barrel" is up against the blank or to "cant" the reelseat with the front(tip end) bottom of the barrel against the "bottom" of the blank. Raising the whole reelseat would be less noticable and canting it might drop the reel handle too low for the guy.
I'm figuring on Fuji Alconite " Power Angle" single foot guides. Tentatively 30, 16, 10, 8,7, and the rest 6's. I'm thinking that the taper is so fast that it might be best to step 8,7,6 rather than 8, and the rest 6's. I've a bunch of cork to " fill in" the space between the blank and the reelseat barrell, or I can also hand make a set of shims from a some old blank pieces.
AM I going in the right direction here or no? I could mount the reelseat "normally" and start with a #30 high frame Hardaloy and then switch to the Alconite New Concepts I guess but I'm not sure I like that Idea so much. Comments,recommendations, experiences, and other words of wisdom please. Warren

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Re: Spinning rod guide quandry
Posted by: William (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 25, 2001 09:04PM

I read in Rodmaker about mounting the reel seat on an angle to get more upsweep and was intrigued then. After your post I am even more interested. If the reel has absolutely no upsweep and you know the customer is going to use that specific reel on the rod I'd try it. I think I'd keep the forward edge of the seat centered and drop the rear just enough to get myself 4 to 6 degrees of upsweep. Anymore than that and you'll have trouble fitting the rear grip.

I would drop the rear and keep the front centered or you may find that the reel's bail roller will smack the user's fingers. I'm trying to picture how this would affect things.

I don't think you can decide upon guide sizes and heights until you plot the straight line from the reel spool centerline to the intersection point. I do know that on most of my rod done for medium sized reels I seem to go 30 - 20 - 12 - 7 and then 7's on out. I have some larger saltwater spinning rods where I wound up with 40 - 25 - 12 - 8 and 8's on out. None of these have been concept guides, but just regular BSVLG's or SVSG's and SG's for the single foots on the tip ends. I used NSG's for the running guides on the heaviest rod.

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Re: Spinning rod guide quandry
Posted by: Mike (163.206.48.---)
Date: September 26, 2001 12:11PM

Try the offset reel seat first before you glue it on the blank. Get three tapered corks or stoppers with outer diameters that will plug the reel seat you intend to use. Bore holes through the corks that allow a snug fit on the area of the blank where the reel seat will be positioned. On two of the corks bore the holes in the center. On the third cork bore the hole slightly offset from the center. Now you can use these to position the reel seat completely centered, centered at front, or centered at rear and test cast to determine the best performance.

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Re: Spinning rod guide quandry
Posted by: Billy 40 (---.dynamic.ziplink.net)
Date: September 26, 2001 01:05PM

Hello Warren. I find the same "problem" with the Shimano Baitrunner 4500 I just finished test casted 30 minutes ago. I am building a Lami CGBT781ML 6'6, quite heavier than the rod you're building - but I ran into the same problem.

First, I built the handle assembly ( - split cork, skeleton seat, cork insert, cork foregrip. I then found where the rod begins to bend, and marked it on the blank - I then found the spot where the reel intersected the blank - and it was about 8 inches from the tip. I just made sure when I started with teh single footed guides, it was between these points. I also wanted them to start closer to where the rod began to bend.

Guides - Fuji Hardaloy BYLG & BLG. I tried a 25-12-single foot 8 out combo - but the line was choked by the 25 no matter where I placed it. I moved up to a 30-16-12 single foot 8 out, and the line flowed much better. I also switched teh first size 8 single foot to a size 10 to reduce the angle the line made when the rod was flexed.

What size tip is on this rod? If he is using the rod for Stripers & Blues from the surf, he will probably be using a leader and I'm not to sure about the knot clearance with a size 6 guide. To be honest, the knot clearance with a size 8 guide isn't too good. I have been told that the guides should match the tip-top. If you have a size 8 tip (the ID), then you should go no lower than a size 8 guide.

As far as ordering the guides goes, decide which ones you want to build with - SIC, Alconites or Hardaloy. Then buy a size 30, 35, 30, 16, 12 (2), 10(2) YLG (concet) series guides. Also get a couple of size 10 & about (10) size 8 single foot guides (or whatever size to match the tip). While this seems like a lot of waste - you will have no problem deciding for yourself what works best. You also cannot tell just how many of the smaller running guides you will need ( I used 6 on my rod)

I hope this helps some. Billy

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Re: Spinning rod guide quandry
Posted by: Karen Balcombe (---.mon.centurytel.net)
Date: September 27, 2001 02:16AM

Give Todd at Lamiglas a call. Todd has expermented with mant differnt reeseats. and incorperated them in to there product

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Same problem and solved it
Posted by: Mike Bolt (---.50.54.83.mhub.grid.net)
Date: September 27, 2001 05:13PM

Before I took my vacation I built another jerk jigger rod. 7' old style Loomis MB843 of which I only have one left :(

Reel to be used was a Penn 450SS. NO SWEEP discernable. Being frustrated as heck, I tried three other older model spinning reels with the same results. Called Kirkman to talk over the problem. I hate admitting defeat but I am not a rod techie, just old school.

Problem was solved by placing a high frame alconite 30 in the same position as I have with all of my other 7' spinning rods. I followed it with a high frame 16, 12, 10, 8, 8, and low frame 8, 8 alconites. Took it to the beach and caught copious quanties of blues and spainish in the pound to 3 pound range.

I honestly gave this rod a good test. I also honestly still do not see the need for 8 guides on a 7' spinning rod. Although the rod felt a 'tad' lighter using all single foots, I just don't think that it performed any better than my previous 6 guide designs although I will may now switch to all single foot guides. I really feel that the samll alconites are too light and fragile for heavy duty purposes. I felt that I had to protect them rather than paying more attention to fishing.

I am going to let a customer that I have built 6 of the MB843's for take the new concept rod to Panama City with 6 other fishermen next month and let them pass judgement on it. They only cast for spainish and will give it a good workout.

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Re: Same problem and solved it
Posted by: Billy 40 (---.dynamic.ziplink.net)
Date: September 27, 2001 07:30PM

Mike - You said the problem was solved when you placed a size "30 in the same position as I have with all of my other 7' spinning rods. " What was this in place of, a size 25?

Thanks, Billy

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weight
Posted by: William (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 27, 2001 09:00PM

The weight difference is more than you think. On a heavier saltwater rod the guides make up less of the total weight so it's not as noticeable. On that 843 the difference should be much more noticeable. I have converted nearly all my spinning rods to the concept system and they perform and feel so much better that I will never go back to the 'standard' method.

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clarification
Posted by: Mike Bolt (---.50.54.83.mhub.grid.net)
Date: September 27, 2001 10:49PM

By position, I meant I placed the butt guide in the same place on all others built of the same design on that blank.

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