Although we all know (presumably) the rod builder’s definition of “Action”, I think it would be interesting to hear some subjective insight as to how the Action (slow, mod, or fast) affects how a rod performs for given techniques or applications. Any further thoughts on how it interacts with “power”? ….or, “Sensitivity”?

The advertising and marketing people have so badly skewed the term that most fishermen who discuss "action" are likely talking about a dozen different things. Many, if not most casting and spinning guys, think of action as being power or stiffness (I want a rod with a "light" action). Fly fishermen tend to talk of action as being how quickly or slowly a rod reacts and recovers.

............

Action for casting and spinning rods as descibed graphically in most catalogs pertains to the part of the blank that flexes. Although words do not jive in many cases most of the pictures showing the relative bend location for actions from slow to extra fast are pretty consistant.

You might be surprised when you see the approach that Castaway uses to define the terms:

Action and power are the two terms needed to match up to a specific technique.

Also take at look at the rod locator while you are at the site:

[www.castawayrods.com]

Swampland Tackle



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2009 03:13PM by Bill Stevens.

Bill,
Looked at the site. The diagram and text for action was consistent with other sources. The rod finder was unique and although it identified a recommended blank for a specific application, it didn’t give any insight as to why it would be preferred. I suppose that would be an area where it becomes subjective….and interesting.

The value is kinda subjective or propieatary as they prefer certain blanks for certain techniques - they are not blank sellers and do not throw too much at the wall - If you use the rod finder you can cross reference their blanks to the uses.

That's a very good illustration for what action is - many catalogs and websites show the same blank, deflected to varying degrees but all possessing the identical action.


.................

Tom,
You’re probably right, the Action may not be clearly understood…let alone how it can affect the way a rod is suited for certain techniques or applications. Perhaps I was presumptuous in thinking that the users of this fourum, primarily being rod builders, would have a pretty good grasp of the definition. It’s been in the site’s glossary for some time. At least now it’s been brought to their attention and hopefully clarified.

Bill,
You said, “The value is kinda subjective or propieatary as they prefer certain blanks for certain techniques - they are not blank sellers and do not throw too much at the wall”.
I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean it’s a secret why a specified blank is recommended for a specified technique? Kinda like a “secret recipe”? Who’s not blank sellers and not throwing at the wall????
You also said,” Action and power are the two terms needed to match up to a specific technique.”
That’s very profound, but at the same time ambiguous. Where do we cretins go for such information if not this website?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2009 05:27PM by jim spooner.

I think it's just like cork is/was.... there is NO standard. Even within the same brand and line/lure rating a certain action rating may be very different per each series. I have the hardest time explaining what action really is to people and how it affects what they want their rod to do. BTW, I see the definition of action as the amount of flex in a specific area of a rod for a given load. Ideally, I would make this load a set percentage of it's maximum rating and see which portion of the rod flexes. I might not make any sense here but it all fits together in my head. Most manufacturer charts I see are on the right track for their depiction of "action".

Steve

Another reason why the Common Cents System's AA (Action Angle) makes perfect sense.

.............

Most recreational fisherman will always ask for a fast action blank - they are normally driven by marketing information - are they correct in all cases? A custom builder should spend the time to determine which blank characteristics apply under the conditions of use. The one thing that is missing is data to support common units for across product line comparison.

Blank design fits a specific set of fishing task requirements - think about this one -

You are fishing in the marsh in a bay boat and desire to make long throws with a popping cork rigged with a live shrimp dangling 18 inches below the weighted cork on a trebel hook - the total weight of the cork and bait system is 1/2 ounce. Waiting on the other end of the line is a "school" speckled, "paper mouth", trout that weighs in the 2 pound range. You may be required to jerk the cork from time to time while gazing at the sunrise to entice a strike. The live shrimp cost you $ 0.35 cents each at the marina . You and your two buddies hope to put 150 of the silver wonders in the ice box before it gets too hot.

What length - action - and power rod would you choose? Why! It might be a good thing for us to have everyone write a conditions of use and their choice of blanks and also provide supporting reasons.

Gon Fishn

Dang Bill, 150 trout!! I've got to do some fishing while I'm in LA in a couple of months. On the GA coast we can keep 10 a person and FL is 5. I need to move.

I think “Action” is clearly defined by both text (glossary) and the diagrams (including text) such as that provided on Castaway’s web site. The “flex point”(where the blank begins to flex, determining its ratio of the blanks length, which in turn, determines the “Action” as “fast, “mod” or “slow”) is nebulous and of course, not an easily located “point” at all. The “Common Cents System” gives us the practical means for rating the blanks Action.
What is not so clear however, is how the different Actions can best be utilized effectively for a rods intended purpose. I’ve found that by having an array of rods of various Powers and Actions, the selection for a given application has become a process of evolution for me. Unfortunately, part of that process has been partly based on theory or conjecture and not necessarily on reality or fact. Sometimes, something just “feels” right. Try explaining that to someone. LOL. I think also that personal preference is a major player in the selection process.
It is good marketing practice to convince everyone that every technique requires a different rod. I believe the reality is that a rod of a particular Power and Action can perform several tasks quite readily.
More often than not, when I want a little more “stiffness” in a tip, I can remove an inch or two to get the desired effect. The rod may still be a “fast” Action, but the “feel” is significantly different. Only by CCS’ing the rod to get the “Action Angle” can the change be quantified.

Bill,
The first thing that came to my mind when I read your challenge was, what trade-offs would I be willing to make. Therein lies the challenge…for me at least.
I think what you said about “a conditions of use and their choice of blanks and also provide supporting reasons”, would be an extremely good thing to have….especially the “supporting reasons”, not that we’d all be in agreement, but it might cause us to consider factors that we hadn’t previously considered.

Back to your original question...

My fishing, on nearly all fronts, is probably too simplified. But as I get older, that's what I prefer (and I catch more fish now than in previous years). I like an extra fast action on everything from fly to stand-up. Most all of my rods are built on blanks that have been extended. I'm in the process of having some fly rod blanks manufactured and they feature an AA of nearly 80. That's unheard of in fly rods. But it's what I prefer. I find that in most cases, such an action does what I want it to do and I find it more versatile in a greater range of applications than slower actions would be.

I would not prefer this type action for a sit-down trolling rod, but I do little to none of that these days. Likewise there are other types of fishing that would not be suited by an extra fast action rod, but I guess I don't participate in those types of fishing, either.

...........

Tom, I'm with you on the one action fits most front. I fish primarily top water and suspending plugs and I get the best movement and action on those baits with a fast action rod. I like the stiffer tip and feel when I couple that stiffness with braid, I can impart better action on the hunk of plastic I'm offering to fish.

Bill,
In your scenerio, are you using mono, fluro, braid or bailing twine?

Matthew,
When you say “stiffer” (being relative), isn’t that a contradiction to “fast”? I agree with being able to impart better action on baits with a stiffer tip, but I find that to get “stiffness”, I either have to cut back the tip of a “fast action” (slowing the blank)or up the “Power” to where the tip is relatively stiffer….I.E., go to heavy or med. heavy Power vs. medium Power. Even increasing the Power does not necessarily give a stiffer tip.
Good point about the stiffness of braid.

This is where we get into the different aspects of what folks consider Action to mean. I have some live bait rods that are extremely stiff in the butt and mid areas, but very soft and light in the tip. They are definitely fast action rods. I also have some regular spinning rods that are just as fast action, but much stiffer in the tip without being anywhere near as powerful in the butt and mid section. Stiffness is one thing, Action is another.

...........

Tom,
Agreed, but isn’t tip “stiffness” or “softness” generally associated with Action. I.E., a “faster Action” would generally have a “softer” tip as opposed to a “moderate Action” in the same powered rod. I’m not saying its how Action is determined, but I think it’s usually a by-product.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2009 01:23PM by jim spooner.

Sometimes but not always. I have some live bait rods that are extremely powerful and possess very soft, light, fast tips. But I also have some casting rods that are just as fast, with less overall power, and with tips that are quite a bit stiffer than those on the live bait rods.

For the same power, however, I'd say your observation would be correct most of the time.

..........

I’ve had people who wanted another med-hvy (or whatever), “fast Action” rod just like the one they had, except they wanted a slightly stiffer tip to better work baits and increase sensitivity. I explained to them that I could cut 1” or 2” off the tip, but the rod may or may not be still classified as “fast Action”, depending on how “fast” it was to begin with. It would definitely be less fast. The “feel” of course, would be subjective. It’s easier for me to relate to how much, more or less, on my rods because I already have rods with the recorded A/A, some of which are the same blank with varying amounts of tip removed. Even if the CCS was to become the “standard”, I’m not sure people could relate to the Power and Action (A/A) values, but at least they’d have a relative and meaningful value and over time, get a “feel” for what it means.
I think Action is only one of a blanks attributes (also Power, length), which we often have to compromise on, for a given application or technique. I.E., I like shorter, stiffer (slower) tipped rod so that I can better "work" baits such as ripping a crankbait through grass, or twitch a topwater lure. A “spongy” or “soft” tip is not nearly as effective, IMO. I also feel that sensitivity is better for worms and jigs. What I have to give up is casting ease (for lack of a better word). That has become much more of a factor as I’ve gotten older.
Someone once told me “If you are going to cheat, know the rules, so you can cheat intelligently. I suppose that applies here by knowing “what” affects “what”.