In light of all the discussion about micro fly guides, I ordered a bunch of American Tackle titanium fly guides size 5. They are beautiful! Question is: are they big enough? I passed a loop to loop fly line-leader connection through and it just barely squeezed through. Will this be a problem when a big fish decides to take a run for it when the leader is through half of my rod guides?

Calvin

Calvin,
If the leader connection will not easily slide through it's too small.
You should make every attempt to play the fish to net prior to bringing the fly line into the guides.
I agree that long fine leaders catch more fish and likewise make landing the fish more difficult.
Even a good nail not can catch a guide and cause the loss of a good fish.
Long handle nets or a good friend can be very helpful when he just won't come any closer.
Bring the line into the tip top as a last resort and if the fish breaks the tippet it was his turn to win today.
Good luck

Ya know ya don't have to use micros just because everyone else is using them.
Only you can decide if the rings will fit the knots.

Bill - willierods.com

Eugene,

Thanks for your advice, though I have to say that if you are fishing 20 foot leaders on still waters there is no way to get close enough to grab that fish without bringing the line past the tip tops. On another note, I also disagree with playing the fish as long as possible before netting. I certainly feel that the fish has a much better chance at recovery when brought in as soon as possible. I'm not saying you are entirely wrong Eugene, just that fishing conditions are different in different places and sometimes short leaders just won't do.

Calvin

As Tom will no doubt mention. Use the smallest lightest guides that will handle the line and any connections you need to pass. For bass rods I don't have to worry about it being to small. For fly rods you will need to test and see how small you can go and what effect it has.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

There are not many using the "micros" for fly rods, in fact there is no proven benefit when used on fly rods. This movement to "how light can I make it" goes beyond common sense. Hav ing to adjust your leader length to accommodate the fad is an example.

While I do not think micro are fads, I'd say form follows function. If it's that tight, then I'd use larger guides.

Mo

I agree if you must use leaders that long. I stop at about 14 feet but have long arms.
Looking at the numbers if you insist on ceramics the smallest guide should be an 8 along with the tip top. You can use the 5's for a very nice spinning rod. The ID of an 8 is 5.5mm which is about the same as a standard fly tip top.

personally cant stand em keep dropping em and cant see them wayyyy to fiddly

Up until recently, micro guides were 5's and 6's and they're certainly still around. So too, will be the 2's and 3's over time. Less weight, particularly on fly rods, equals a much more efficient rod.

The criteria regarding guide size hasn't changed - use the smallest guides that will still easily pass your line and required connections.

What you're going to have to do is tape up a set and go out and cast and retrieve it a bit. Continue going smaller until things stop working. And yes, if you plan to wind your leader/line connection onto the reel, you'll have to accommodate that too.


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Save the smaller guides for a spinning or casting rod and get some larger guides (big enough to pass your knots) for the fly rod. I think the mircos can be carried a little too far. If you can't make a cast, it really doesn't seem worth the effort to build it to start with.
I've built a couple with good results but they're not the ultimate answer, just another arrow in the quiver.

Phil:

"This movement to "how light can I make it" goes beyond common sense"

I will agree with your statement if you consider the move to micro guides proposed applies to all fishing rods.

Under certain circumstances common sense leads in the direction of smaller guides. Proponents are being very specific about the use of the small guides, their advantages and targeted usage.

The common sense exhibited by the use of these guides has astounded many satisfied users.

I disagree with using smaller guides on a fly rod...On my fly rods I put bigger diameter light wire guides and feel that it increases my casting distance. As fly line is different from mono or braid I think it wiggles more as it goes through the guides and having the bigger guides help get more distance and line shooting ability.

If single foot guides were truly better they would replace snake guides..snake guides were designed by fly anglers hundreds of years ago and are still in use for other reasons than nostalgia.

I built a 6wt rod with a 16 as the first stripper guide and a 12 for the second with big double foot snake guides all the way to the tip. It shoots line like a cannon and I believe it is because of the bigger guides.

Permit me to disagree - snake guides aren't used because they're "better." They are simply far less expensive and yet work well enough. They are also what the consumer expects to see on a fly rod. When they were first developed, they were laughed at because they weren't the traditional "ring and clasp" type fly rod guide. Snake guides aren't anywhere near "hundreds of years old," in fact, they're barely 100 years old at this point and many fly rods made up through the 1920's still didn't use them.

The correct size is always going to be the smallest guides that will do the job and pass your required connections. Using guides that are larger than necessary adds weight that the rod must then carry (permanently) and this means that some of your imparted energy is then being wasted in starting and stopping the rod. But just what that size is will be something you can only determine by trying them.

My 6-weight rods all use #6 single foot ceramics (SIC) and they also "shoot line like a cannon." Is it the guides, or something else? Would your rod shoot line even better than a cannon with a size or two smaller guides? These are the type things you can spend a few afternoons messing around with and likely discover some very interesting things.

I do hope the term "micro guides" will fall out of favor soon. They're just guides of a particular size and don't need that moniker creating confusion or misleading anyone.

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