Recently saw where one of the big rod companies has a new flipping rod out. They tout the rod as haveing an extra fast action which allows it to be more than just a flipper and even indicate it would be good for big cranks! I allways preferred a moderate action for these rods and no more than a moderate/fast. Is this new taper going to be the "deal"? I do see a move to very fast actions but for my bass fishing I do not care for them. Help me understand the advantage of an extra fast flipper?

Bill,
I like fast and extra fast action rods for bass fishing, but not for a flipping/ pitching stick. I'm usually using heavy line and I need a little more shock absorption provided by a moderate action. In fact, my general rule is the heavier the power, the slower I like the action. Crankbait rods are all moderate for me, so they are the exception regardless of power.

Take Care,
Robert

Depending on how well they are marketed? You may indeed see a move that direction.
But I believe just long enough for people to realize how many more fish they loose flipping with these types of setups.
Then you will see things swing back again to the more moderate blanks.

The companies desireing to increase market penetration tend to market in the opposite direction to those in control of the existing market. See how you like it with a big one latched up at 15 - 20 feet with 50 # braid - one head shake and she is a gone goose.

Didn't Daiwa built some X-Fast light tipped flippers back in the late 80's? The design didn't last very long.

Here I am, trying to swim up the waterfall again. It's a lot of fun until you have to return downstream which I have done on occasion.

Bill, Bill, Steve, Robert (and of course myself because I gernerally adhere to the same philosophy). Suppose we take our moderate action heavy flipping stix' and make them more comfortable and accurate for flipping or pitching? How could we do this?

Very simple. We give it a softer (extra fast action) tip. The end result is that you will work a lot less at the end of the day and your presentations will be much more accurate because of the ease of presentation. It will also allow you to get farther away from your target because of the extra distance you can get from the softer tip.

Now what happens when we drive the hook home? If we use a longer rod, 7 1/2 to 8 foot, then the "meat" of the rod loads with the same effect as it would with only a moderate action since the extra fast tip section has been taken out of play very early in the hookset.

I don't think this design would be a very good cranker though.

Bobby;
are you saying that they are making a moderate blank with an extra fast tip?

Bobby this is a tough one - driving a hook home, getting the fish out of a tree top and getting a large fish in the boat after a head shake requires a blank to effectively do all jobs. There is no comparison to measure the action of blanks across product lines - there is a fine line between fast power to hook set and and a tip that locks up too quickly causing fish to be lost with a shake of the head. I think we will all agree that the the blanks needs to provide a smooth transition from softness to power on such a blank. You have a new 7' 6" blank in your possession - how would you describe the action and/or tip feel?

Steve

Suppose we take our current flipping blank and put it under it's full load. The action we would like to see is what we call moderate. Or at least we would like to see the bend go to or a little past the mid section and have an appropriate AA. Correct?

Now suppose we could meld a short softer tip section to that same blank and begin to load it. During the early part of the loading the tip is going to give the appearance that it is an extra fast blank. Then when you continue loading to the full load, the blank will have approximately the same shape as before except that the tip will have a greater AA. For those who live by the numbers this would certainly be called an extra fast blank. The number itself , or our mindset, would then be reason enough for it to be discounted as a good flipping blank. "You following me camera guy?"

Now imagine that we could have this proposed blank then we could accomplish several things not typically done with our current flipping sticks. First in the longer length (7 1/2 - 8 foot) we would have practically the same hook setting ability as before, we would find it much easier to accurately position our bait and we would be able to get more distance with less effort which would make for a less tireing day. One can even get very good at roll casting these rods and find that we don't even need to flip or pitch with it. And of course the greatest advantage is that we can stay back farther and still accurately hit our target.

Steve your question was: "are you saying that they are making a moderate blank with an extra fast tip?" Yes they are by my definition, but not by the 'numbers' definition.

You see, I feel that there are a couple of things that keep us bass fisher persons locked in the box. One is the fact that the manufacturers want us to stay locked into the "MagBass" section off their catalogs because it would complicate their world too much if we ever got to demanding a Hot Shot or Bounce Back blank for anything to do with bass fishing. The second is that peer pressure keeps us locked into the notion that we have to have an 'XYZ' action before we can catch a bass on an "ABC" bait. It just ain't true.

I use and sell flipping sticks that are made on my above definition (very strong butt with a dispproportionally soft tip). They work so well that I will probably never go back to the 'heavy powered rod with moderate action'.

How's that for swimming up stream?

There's something to using blanks outside the "mag bass" category that yields some wonderful results. The problem is learning the product lines, what they can do, the available blanks, and experimenting with how to apply them appropriately.

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Alex, you are exactly right. A good example of where we can make big changes with new discoveries is Robert Russel's discovered that the XP3 popping blanks made excellent crankbait rods. Do you ever see a 'popping' rod advertised for anything other than red fish or specled trout?

I does take a lot of time and energy to make new discoveries but I feel that is a contribution that the custom rod building community is best at and this will keep us on the leading edge of the curve.

Interesting not sure what the actual taper is. By the way the rod mentioned is a Fenwick Elite Tech 7'11" flipper. I have had problems dumping fish with fast action rods and jigs but I have lost a few on the moderate action even after bowing the rod into a good bend and have them just come off. Probably never got the hook set and the fish just had the jig clamped in her mouth! I think in true flipping the tip does not make much difference but does come into play when pitching. My general rule has been the heavier the power and closer to the boat the more moderate the action. Perhaps as suggested the "extra-fast tip" is added to a standard more moderate blank? Seems the exact amount of tip would be hard to calculate due to the wide range of baits and line used in flip/pitch rods but I can see where that could be useful. I will have to check one of the rods out in the store! I can see it now flip rod for light applications, medium, heavy... wait a minute I already do that!

Action is generally regarded as where the blank flexes initially. All rods have a "progressive" action which means that as you apply more and more load, the point of flex moves toward the butt. This would be true whether the rod possesses a fast, medium or slow action.

.........

I assume they may be speaking of a "hinged" blank effect such as found on blanks used for light drop shot rods. I have an old Shikari P7000 (I think that is the blank) that does have a very light tip section but has a moderate curve when fighting even a small bass. My assumption is that Fenwick added a light tip section to a normal power flipping blank. While this does create a fast/extra fast action I question how this would work with short line applications where sudden slack line would mean lost fish? I understand the theory but think I would have to use one for a while before I would be convinced. Now as to extra fast and cranking...

Bobby;
Your post makes too much good sense, for me not to try one of these.
But I will have to use one for a while before I could totally agree (or disagree) with what you are saying.

If you don’t mind answering; what is the weight of one of these blanks?
Now that I’m out the Shikari's I’ve been using. I need to find something I like to take their place anyway.

XP3 964 - two 2.19 2.25

XP3 963 - two 2.24 2.26

Finished All Micro On Top 965 3.46 oz

These are the all matte black - I do not have any of the blue ones to weigh

Steve, the unit of measure is not pounds!

Have a nice evening and thanks for the call!

Bobby is going to have us all using Rogue blanks of one kind or another. What's funny is all us bass fishermen will be using blanks from their "other" lines like the Bounce Back and Hot Shot blanks whatever the heck those techniques are ;) .

Robert your shot will open the can of worms fully - Bounce = Swim! This will extend the topic for the weekend and he will be grinning while wrapping! He is probably out catching lunch!