Here is a picture of a wrap I did last night, it uses Fishhawk metallic hot pink, and Gudebrod metallic white pearl. [www.rodbuilding.org] When I put color preserver on it got very splotchy. Looks a little better now that it’s dry, but still not great. I thought that I had packed and burnished very well, it looked fabulous before I put the color preserver on.

You have a very light, bright color over a dark rod blank. If you had painted a single coat of pink paint over a dark brown or charcoal colored wall, you'd have the same result.

I would ask if you thinned your CP - this sometimes causes a similar result as well. What brand CP did you use?

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Why would you use a color preserver on matallics anyway?

Mike you color choices are beginning to make all the ones on my side wonder about a micro basser going Kagoo! You must be building this rod for a true flipper!

I used Swifty Diamondite color preserver, it was a fresh bottle, no thinning. The night before I used the same bottle on a very dark blue blank with Madeira fluorescent orange wraps, the thread got darker when I put the color preserver on, but it was a very even color without the splotches.

This is the first time I have used metallic thread for a main wrap, I almost always use Madeira as my main thread with metallic gold or silver trim. I hoped that this thread being a metallic would stay very pink after I put the finish on, it looked spectacular before the color preserver. I mainly used the color preserver since I have always used it, and it seems like if I seal the thread before I put the finish on it covers and levels better. Do you believe that if it had left the color preserver off and put the finish directly on the metallic thread it would have looked any better?

You’re right Bill I do like some color on my rods. This rod is for my tournament partner who is a woman, although she is 10 times the redneck I am she still likes all things pink. The good news is that the decal I printed for this rod has a pink camo background, I can just say the wraps are a special effect to carry over the theme…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 10:43AM by mike harris.

My curiosity is piqued. Looking at the picture, I wonder if the blotchiness is stemming from the fact that metallic thread does not readily absorb the CP, and as such the CP is pooling unevenly on the rod blank?
So what is actually being seen is lack of reflection or transmittance from the blank, and not a characteristic of the thread interacting with the CP and epoxy.
If this is the case, would coating the blank with CP prior to wrapping, or CP plus underwrapping abrogate the effect?
Sorry...... hijacking with my own questions.

Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else.
Leonardo da Vinci

Weather you thinned it or not use at least two wet coats. About an hour drying in between. Then let dry, I leave it till the next day.
CP helps to get rid of any bubbles in the thread. Looks like it is packed well ?
I coat mine on the dryer, then hand turn and wipe off excess, then put the turner back on till set up.
Like Tom said, dark blank light colors.

Bill - willierods.com

Dark thread on dark blank generally works fine. Light colored thread on a dark blank is something totally different.

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Mike I do a lot of those areas with light colors for decal background - the only simple way to do it is underwrap with J Metallic Silver first. It will come out dead on pink with no shiney highlights - Jmetallic- one coat of CP to keep thread packed while overwrapping with color - overwrap with pink and one coat of CP on top to lock pink color.

The attached photo is NCP white over a black blank -

[www.rodbuilding.org]

i think the problem is the white metalic under wrap. i use white ncp for under wrap when i want a brite color on top. the white metalic disapears with out cp.

No underwrap, the white is just a trim band.

Mike;
I use a lot of metallics and have never used CP almost always the final color is exactly as I start with.
Since I've never had a problem with the blotching I'm thinking that it is an effect of the CP.

Even if it did lighten or darken up a bit with out using CP, I believe you would not have the problem.

I always use CP on metallics and I have not had that problem yet. I know alot of stuff is blamed on contamination, but could the thread had been pulled between thumb and forefinger while wrapping?

Bill

Ohio Rod Builders

Canton, Ohio

Well I guess that I will try a test wrap and apply the finish without any color preserver, if that looks a lot better I will cut these wraps off, at least they don’t have finish on them yet. If it still looks like this they will become a special feature trying to match the pink camo decal…

Mike,

If you don't want to underwrap, I would suggest you paint the blank at the wrap areas with a lighter color. If you don't want to do that, try chrome mylar tape that you can get at any auto parts store in the body work section.

Bill in WV

I have not had much experience with colored metallics, just gold and silver, and I've done them both with and without CP with no problems. This looks to me like it could have used either a second coat of CP, or none at all.

The comments about light colors over dark blanks seem to me like they would be valid for regular non-metallic thread, but aren't metallics totally opaque? The golds and silver gudebrods that I have used work on any color blank, with and without CP. I admit that I do mostly trim bands with metallics that are less than 1/4 inch wide, which would be less sensitive to blotching, I would think. I now do most of my winding without CP.

i just checked the Fishawk Threads web site, and I couldn't find a metallic hot pink. Are you sure you are not using the Fishawk 411 color? If so, and it's not their opaque 411, then maybe you just needed a second coat of CP, or a light colored undercoat as has been suggested. If it's their 411 opaque, it may not be opaque enough to get along without a light undercoat.

Oh dear
Persistent myths abound
The physical issue of darkening of wrap colours on dark blanks is well understood
The cause is lensing of the dark blank into the lighter coloured std threads from the CP or finish coat & is more often encountered with nylon thread than Polyester.............. this is related to the closeness of the refractive index (RI) of the coating to the material the thread is made from after being soaked in CP /finish coat etc.
Closer the RI, the more lensing is apparent.
The darkening of non-CP coated std threads with direct epoxy application is because the RI of epoxy is a bit higher than clear acrylics ( most CP base being acrylic , either in hydrocarbon solution or water )
The thicker the CP or more coats the worse the problem...............ie dark bands observable at coat 1 become less noticeable because the whole wrap area darkens with more coats of CP.

No problem with opaque thread( NCP) ........... RI difference is high
most metallics are a thin film strip wound over a carrier core................ darkening can still occur in small areas where the lay of the metallic strip is excessively disturbed by burnishing or poor wrapping technique...................you typically don't notice it because its a very small area in a much much larger area of colour ( they eye is fooled .............sort of a reverse tiger effect ) ............... in the vast majority of the wrap area using these threads the RI difference is High.

These are immutable facts of life playing with colour layers

The rules for colour coating are the same in all forms of layering different colours .
Paint a wall, paint a car, wrap a rod..............same effects , same rules to mitigate colour change to the top colour.
Optical blending of the colours in multi layers is more noticeable the further the two layers are apart in colour.
dark colours over a light undercoat optically lighten the top colour.
light colours over a dark undercoat darken the top colour.
The more opaque the top colour the less the effect.
The more translucent the top coat the greater the effect.
The closer the colour is to a prime colour pigment and the lighter the tone the greater the effect.( not going to attempt to explain why here )
ie
pink is close to prime red.............it is particularly susceptible to this issue when used over a dark background.

Mr Stevens
Pearls of wisdom Sir..............you get the cupie doll.................. shame you have to get to the other side of the pond to collect....... in compensation have a glass for me.

Bottom line..................if you want to ensure a true rendition of a pink wrap put it over a white or silver opaque underwrap or spray the wrap area with a Matt white or silver...................airbrushes & white base colour for 2-pack systems do a nice job.

Well I did some test wraps last night and it looks like this is as good as it gets with this thread on this color blank. Putting finish directly on the thread resulted in very dark colors that were still splotchy, I guess this “metallic” thread isn’t all that metallic after all. I will post pictures later of my test wraps. I guess it is back to my beloved Madeira, I can put very bright colors on dark blanks, and although they get darker with color preserver and finish they still look great.