Under the now page deep thread on micro guides there was a statement that said that baitcasting outfits would outcast spinning outfits. I assume the writer was speaking of distance.

I would like to good naturedly challenge that idea. I know that my UL outfits are all spinning and this is because when I get down around 1/8 ounce or so my baitcasters will not cut the mustard. Even on lighter rods designed for that lure weight, I do not believe a casting reel will come anywhere close to casting as efficiently or as far as a spinning outfit will.

I may be missing something but in my personal experience, a spinning outfit will outcast a baitcaster nearly every time. Accuracy and the ability to feather and stop a lure goes to the baitcaster, but if we are only talking sheer distance, I seem to find the spinning outfit outdoes the baitcaster. Any differing opinions are welcome.

I doubt that the average fisherman would really worry about which would "outcast" the other and make a decision as to which one to use based on only on that criteria.

My experience has been that the spinning outfit will achieve a greater distance while the bait casting rig will allow for more accuracy.

Speaking of distance. If spinning reels threw farther how come every surf casting competition is filled with conventional reels over spinning reels? I do agree with you though on the lighter lures. I can throw an 1/8 better with my spinning gear than with bait casting gear. I have also stood shoulder to shoulder with buddy that could out throw me with a bait caster and an 1/8 ounce lure. I think it all boils down to the individual. Having said that I still believe that bait caster will out distance a spinning reel.

Surf casting with heavy lures and sinkers shows that a spinning reel has an inherent flaw - the line will either tear your finger off or the spool will slip as power is applied. But this isn't so much a function of casting deficiency as it is the fact that spinning reels are not able to be used in situations where very heavy weights are cast. They weren't designed for it.

On the flip side, it hasn't been too many years since baitcasters were worthless with anything much under 1/4 ounce lure weights. Go back a few years earlier and that number would have been about 1/2 ounce. Spinning outfits outshine baitcasters, even today, on the lighter lure set ups.

What it comes down to, is having the right tool for the specific job at hand. Sometimes this is a casting outfit and sometimes it's a spinning outfit.

............

It sure is horses for courses
There is no doubt that threadline ( spinning reels) have an edge in lures under 3/16 oz .
The inertia the lure has to overcome to get that spool rotating in a casting reel at the start of a cast simply robs too much energy from the lure & reduces casting distance.

At the heavyweight end of the scale the energy robbed from the lure by the inertia of the casting reel spool is not such a high percentage of the lure's energy and the line flowpath of the spinning reel is less efficient than that of the casting reel. In general that gives an advantage to the casting reels.

Tom's point about the ability to hang on to the line with a spinning reel during the cast ,with fingers , to be able to impart maximum power into the lure is quite true but line release systems are available to mitigate that issue completely ( they are very similar to bowstring release mechanisms in archery ).

The middle ground of lure weights is a mixed bag.
High wind resistant lures are a shocker to cast with a casting reel as the lure decelerates faster than the rotating spool does & it takes considerable skill to get the right amount of spool braking to prevent over-runs. The spinning reels have an advantage in ease of use and average distance by the average angler in that situation.
Casting reels tend to have advantage with compact wind resistant lures.

Long centreweighted lures in the middle ground are a mixed bag.
Spinning reels tend to make the lure tumble & skill in casting technique is required to get the lure in a stable end-on attitude dring its flight.
When such lures tumble they lose distance incredibly.
Casting reels by their natural inertia at release tend to keep such lures end-on in their flight, but still require skill in casting technique, but once mastered , more consistently outcast spinning reels.

So its a real mixed bag in the middle ground.

Overall the advantages or disadvantages of either type in casting are very dependant on the lure / bait type and weight class of the outfit, with the light line, small lure end of the scale dominated by spinning reels.
Similarly the advantages or disadvantages of sensitivity in the retrieve are very dependant on the lure/bait type and the technique employed..

This casting distance thing is rally a complex gig - wanna have some fun?-

This matches perfectly with what Denis has to say -

See if you can find one of the slender popping corks abour four inches long that have a weight in the lower end and a sliding wire inside the cork to attach the cork to the line - if possible find one with a 1/4 oz weighted lower end.

Set up a casting contest with a buddy with the same rod and reel -

Go outside and you throw it with the weight in the bottom and give it a good sail -

Now turn the thing upside down and attach it where the weight is in the top end and hand it to your buddy to throw -

Same rod, same reel, same weight -

Watch the experssion on his face when his cast is at least 25% shorter than yours!

For those who watched me chunk the micro in the lot at High Point with the little cork on the end which way do you think I had the weight positioned?

I have a casting set up that will equal my light action spinning rod for casting light baits. It will throw a 1/8 oz or even lighter bait just as far as my spinning rod. The problem with bait casters was as Tom mentioned, more of a problem in the past. These days you can buy bait casters specifically designed to throw 1/8 oz and lighter baits. The second issue is rods. It is hard to find a medium light or even light action casting rod for such light baits but that isn't an issue for us custom builders. My set up is a 7' light action rod with either a Pixy or 50mg.

If I go up to a 3/8 oz crankbait, I don't know anyone that can outcast me with a spinning set up and I know a bunch that have tried. I throw these and heavier cranks on a 8' rod and I have friends with 8'6" spinning set ups and they can't match my distance. It doesn't matter if it's with the wind or against, they can't match the distance. I fish a small neighborhood pond weekly and casting distance can mean the difference between catching fish and getting skunked.

I'd like to think I'm a great caster, but honestly with the modern bait casting reels, anyone can do it.

I was the person that made the statement in the 3 page deep thread that Ken mentioned.
I will offer that I agree that spiining outfits rule the finesse arena, and that one must use the proper tool for the proper job.
My subjective opinion based on my experience is that my baitcasters will outcast, in distance and accuracy, my spinning oufits.
These are comparisons made with Chronarch or Scorpion BC's versus 2500 Stradics or Symetres spinning reels on moderately priced rods (factory)
I have not done the side by side experiment with similar blanks etc, but I would bet that with equal blanks and equal line, the baitcasters would throw a 3/8-1/2 oz lead weight farther.
Obviously, it is not a double blind, one-variable test equation with multiple replicated sample and data points.
Nor is this taking into account type of bait or environmental conditions.
That was not the crux of my aforementioned statement. I was equating casting distance to forward line path efficiency.
The more efficient the path, the further the forward path. Seems simple to me.

Life is pretty simple: You do some stuff. Most fails. Some works. You do more of what works. If it works big, others quickly copy it. Then you do something else. The trick is the doing something else.
Leonardo da Vinci

Robert if you really want to see something WILD with the MG 50 and braid -

Pull the braid off the spool - pull it out of the reel body and route it up and over the top of the reel body - not through the line guide on the pawl - then route it through the first guide on the flipping stick with micro - try it out pitching and flipping short distance - I am headed off to get one of the new reels with no level wind after noting the freemom of line movement from free spool -

One thing that I didn't see mentioned is fishing in windy conditions. If you fish the Texas Gulf Coast, the further south you go the more spinning gear you will see. It seems that you have more windy conditions down south. I prefer fishing with a casting set-up over a spinning one but when I fish further south I always carry a spinning rod just in case. For finese fishing in fresh water I use a light powered spinning rod. Each rod has its place in fishing. Just look at what the bass pros have in their boats. I don't get caught up in what rod will cast the furthest but what rod will serve the purpose or situation at the time.

Bill
dead right about the loss of distance if your line and level wind are out of sequence.
Its a real problem with the later disengaging level winds..............you cannot avoid it.
Its a problem at the start of the day too if the reel has been in its storage bag.
I cut a small piece of rubber hose & then cut a slot in it and put it on the tag end of the line as soon as it clears the stripper when disassembling.
Always stays in sequence then as the tag can never get past the levelwind guide.

Used to pull the level wind mechanisms off the older Ambassadeurs I had and fill the holes in the sideplate with some epoxy.
Haven't bothered with my Millionaire V and ScorpionMG versions tho.
Had few of those Ambassadeurs .........1600, 2500, 4500, 500, 5500, 6500, 7000............only have a 2500 ,a4500, & 2off 7000 these days out of that lot..........................but they have a bunch of mates in the reelbox.

I am a spinning person. Many friends have tried to get me into bait casting, and may succeed.

They argue that one of the best benefits of bait casting is that you get to keep the lure in the water longer - i.e. you can generate more casts per time using a biat caster. Does this make sense?

Thanks
rick

In terms of surf casting the amount of weight does not limit you to baitcasters only. With the use of finger guards to protect your finger that eliminates slicing your finger off but still does allow for spool slippage. With the use of a breakaway cannon you eliminate both issues. I personally use both types of setups for surf casting (up to 10 oz.) and can't really tell a difference in distance. I only switch from one to the other setup based on my mood for the day and how much wind I'm dealing with. I can tell you that I know of two people that fish the NC OBX who are strictly spinning guys who can cast further than anyone else using baitcaster that I have ever seen and I have seen them cast weights as much as 12 oz. It simply is not true that spinning reels can not be used to cast heavy weights.

back on topic, in terms of which is the more efficient in casting for distance I would say baitcasters but only because they seem to be the most popular choice for the tournament casters For me, in real fishing situations, I see little to no difference in distance between my two setups. I think the conditions and bait lure have more influence on the distance in a real fishing situation than the reel being used (assuming the optimal setup for both).

I don't think anyone said that spinning reels "cannot" be used to throw heavy weights. Only that they were not designed for that type of thing and have some inherent properties that make it a bit more difficult than casting heavy sinkers with a baitcasting reel.

...........

OK... a little off here... but if you are by passing the level wind (for casting) - how are you getting a decent leveing on the retrieve? Are you still filling the spool just as much? I am very interested!

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Alex - look again -

"try it out pitching and flipping short distance"

Don't really matter a doodley how the line stacks! As it happens with the MG 50 the shape of the outside case on top of the reel centers the line on the spool when reeling in the short length of line involved.

The new reels headed this way do not have a level wind for this technique.

Jeffery F. - how many of the new ones do you have at this time and how are they working?

Good point Bill... got ahead of myself and was thinking distance casting!

I held the reels at the Fuji booth... waiting on my dealer to get them in now... I liked it.

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Take a look at the new Ardent flipping/pitching reels. They are on to something there........along the same lines that Bill was talking about.
If they made lefty's, I'd buy two.

Richard G.-

For me- casting reels can be used more quickly-If I have to position bail to grab the line under the reel to cast-that takes a second. Amount of line between rod tip and lure can be adjusted more quickly with a casting reel-especially if anti-reverse is engaged on a spinning reel. To prevent line loops on a spinning reel the bail has to be closed manually -that's slower than the 1/10 of a handle turn necessary with a casting reel. Doesn't sound like much, but over the course of a day if in a competitive situation-it is time wasted.

Chris

You guy's that are thinking about using the new Ardent flipping reels.

I am WARNING you that this reel will cause you to lose money
Here is something that you really need to think about

Quote: “Ardent has factory preset the drag on the reel to a hefty 22 pounds via their Perma-lock Drag System.”
With out any adjustment

Think about it
If the line (braided) doesn’t give when overloaded using 50 to 65 lb
And the drag doesn’t give when over loaded at 22 lb.

The only thing left to snap (especially on the hook set) when overloaded is the blank. And you get to rebuild it at your cost, because you being a good builder warranty your work.
Not me! I tell my clients not to use them and if they do It voids any warranty I offer.

Something to think about I’ve seen too many rods explode over the years on reels that the drags have been “locked down” but even at that they still won’t lock down past 10 to 12 lb pressure.
Maybe some of those Super blanks Bill is working on will hold up, but doubt it. We’ll be starting thread again about all those bad bass anglers.