On one of the sponsors website I saw the LS Supreme advertised as "new formulation." I emailed Trondak but did not receive any response requesting specific information on the clarity or color compared to the old formula. Since I did not receive any response from Trondak, I will pose the question here. Is the new formula LS clear or is the hardner yellow like the old formula? The LS I purchased a few years ago had a yellow hardner component. I was disappointed in the dark honey color right out of the bottle but I liked the pot life and the way it cured. I was told the honey color was normal. THen Threadmaster came out after I had a stash of LS. I bought Threadmaster recently because it is clear, however, I do not like the length of time my test sample of Threadmaster is taking to cure. I am glad that I did not put it on the wrap without testing. I can assure you that it was mixed correctly and I repeated the test. I did a cure test with my old yellow LS Supreme and purposely measured the components incorrectly. Whether there was excess or insufficient hardner the samples were fully cured when I came back two days later. I cannot say the same for the Threadmaster after two weeks. It is still a little tacky even though I brought upstairs where the temp is 60 to 64. So maybe the better question is how do the two compare to each other?

John
God bless the troops and USA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2009 10:01PM by Tom Kirkman.

John,

I think ALL the hardeners yellow some with nothing more than time. Some more than others.

My 1st attempts at TM lite were not the greatest. Determined to use what I had bought, I decided to use it as a "first coat" on things to get rid of it. Soon I realized that I kinda liked it and it was setting up just fine. I still have no clue as to why my 1st attempts at TM Lite were poor.....but eventually it worked out and I'm using it with it curing just fine. I'd give it a few more test runs, stir it a little more/longer than the others and see what you got.

DR

REgular Threadmaster cures as fast as any finish on the market. TM Lite is a different story, but you dind't specify. If you are using regular TM, adnit's still tacky, you screwed up.

Are you saying TM lite is a poor curing coating? This sample test is the lite build version.

You mentioned moving test applications to an area that was 60-64 degrees. TM lite probably would take forever at even those temps. What temp. was area you moved it from? TM lite is pretty slow even at 70-75. I have to plan work taking that into consideration. Reg. TM will be "dry" to touch in 5 hrs or less at 76 degrees.

John -- To answer your question about the new formulation of the U-40 LS finish and the clarity. It is a much clearer component than before and the end result is a beautiful, bright clear finish.

Bob McKamey -- Custom Tackle Supply

Thanks, I have long believed that some of the curing problems are temperature related and not mixing related My downstairs is 54 to 59 degrees but my other experiments with LS and the old Crystal Coat were just fine in the downstairs. Propane is too expensive. I have no desire to build a drying box. So if I need at least 75 then it will never be my winter thread finish, and I would never have bought it if I knew it was so temp sensitive. In spite of what people say about the problems it is not difficult to measure the components accurately. So is the new LS supreme really clear and non yellow. I mean the stuff I got was dark honey color. I would just like to start out clear and feel good about it. Even the Glasscoat from 4 years ago is only slightly yellowed.

The newer LS Supreme is the high build version I think. Good stuff but very thick and also true one coat on everything including heavy duty saltwater rods. Threadmaster is also good. Both will yellow a little over time. It is darker in the bottle than it will be on the rod.

Hi,

I used the old LS Supreme and was very happy with it. I have not used it since the formula was changed. However, I was given a sample bottle of LS Hi Build at the ICRBE and I will test that. Threadmaster is a finish I have not used.

However I think I can add info to this thread.Temperature definitely affects the curing time of finish. I use Aftcote in a room about 65-67* winter temp. Now I know Aftcote takes longer to cure. I rotate for more than 8 hours and it is still tacky during the winter for at least 24 hours. Recenty I placed 65 watts of light at each end of my 8' drying box. It will raise the box temp to about 85*. Now after rotating for about 9 hours the finish is no longer tacky. I can now do 2 coats of finish on the same rod in 24 hours.

Each of us has to do what works for us. The secret is to learn to capabilities of the finish you chose.

A drying box is a wonderful tool. This is so for many reasons. You should maybe reconsider your reasons for not wanting one. If your basement is that cold and many builders work in such conditions using a heated box with insulated walls will make a great difference.

Capt Neil Faulkner

It should be common knowledge among custom rod builders that epoxy set and cure times are very much affected by temperature. For every 18F decrease in temperature from about 70F, you double the set and cure time. Once you get very much under 50F, the epoxies we normally use as thread coatings can take many, many days, even weeks, to cure.

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U-40 has two versions of their finish. LS Supreme, which has been re-formulated and is both A & B are crystal clear. The LS Supreme is the thinner version. They also offer a LS Supreme Hi-Build version, which is thicker and is also crystal clear. We carry both versions and would be glad to help assist anyone with their U-40 finish requirements or any of the other fine U-40 products.

Bob McKamey -- Custom Tackle Supply

John, With the temps you are working in Threadmaster and even the lite are going to take quite a bit longer to cure. However as far as clarity and UV protection for your thread work there is not a better finish on the market. Why do you think Trondak has tried to change there formulation? Is ThreadMaster the finish for everyone? I would like to think so but, then I would be nieve. Andy Dear worked long and hard to get the best thread finish possible for what is available and I believe he did that which is why when Andy approached me about buying the Company I jumped at the chance. I hope you will give ThreadMaster a worthy try and see that it is in my opinion the superior finish it was designed to be. Thanks Scott Parsons

I think it was fair to assume that since all of the four previous thread finishes cured in the environment that I used the TM that it would likewise cure with no issues. In fact I ran a couple of test cures on two 4 year old finishes before the TM and they cured just fine downstairs. I also did the unequal portions mixing test on the LS and cured fine. One poster queried why I thought the LS was reformulated. I saw the bold lettered new formula label on the LS on the Acid Rod website. You can find the reference there. In my early days we used 18 to 20 degrees as the halving or doubling rate of reaction but the temp was in Centigrade.

Trondak has not attempted to change their formulation other than to constantly improve it and has been doing so for many years (as most companies do). The LS Regular Build went through 3 incarnations before they got what they wanted. The LS High Build is the same now as it was when introduced and it is a very clear finish.

I don't like to get involved in these discussions on which finish is the best - I can get near perfect results with any of them. They're all good. But I had a hand in the request and resulting LS High Build so I have a pretty good idea why and how it came to market. It was not in response to any other epoxy product. The thickness involved puts it into an entirely different category - there is nothing else like it. In fact, many object to just how thick it is, until they learn how to use it.

I also know where ThreadMaster comes from and believe it is among the most clear epoxies sold today as a thread coating. Like all epoxies, the hardener will amber slightly, both from the inherent coloration of the UV inhibitors added to it and the simple fact that hardeners are rarely perfectly clear. But Threadmaster will remain as clear or more clear than any other epoxy currently out there.


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I have been using LS Supreme High Build since 2005 and it suits what I do. It is thick. You have be patient when stirring it but it will give you a true one coat coating on any type of rod even HD saltwater..

LS Supreme High Build was introduced in mid-2004. I still have some bottles that were sent to me in late 2003 for testing. It was the same stuff that eventually went on the market in 2004.

It's very thick - the resin is almost gooey. Many don't like it for that reason, but for those who understand it and know how to make it behave, it's a fine product.

We got off track from the original question a bit. There is nothing wrong with Threadmaster's cure time, Each epoxy formulator designs to suit a particular clientele. Some epoxies set and cure faster than others. The ideal temperature for working with most is from about 70F to 80F. Higher and you reduce the pot life, lower and you increase it. Go too low and you really extend the time it takes to set beyond the tacky stage.

I don't know why your Threadmaster didn't set hard after a few days at higher temperatures, but I doubt there's anything wrong with it. It's bottled from much larger containers so if it was bad in some way, many others would be up against the same problem. While I'm sure you were careful to measure and mix it correctly, I still suspect that the problem is somewhere in there.

In the end, you just have to find the epoxy that suits the way you like to work. You'll also find that in thin layers, on most threads, there is little problem with darkening. Any yellowing or ambering of the epoxy really doesn't show unless you're working with very light colored threads on large areas, or with white thread and white blanks.

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I am probably going to get some TM hi build soon and try it, I have been working with LS supreme for a while and there are a few things I don't like about it but I have finally figured out how to get it right. The bottle I have the hardener is slightly yellowed but not noticeable when it is mixed, but definitely not dark by any means. I have some Flexcoat hi build that is very dark to compare it too. The bottle I have, I have had for about a year because I bought a 8 ounce kit and it still looks good, and it sits out in my shop with no temp control to keep my kids out of it.