Hello Folks,

Your answers to my previous question regarding expectations was right on.,

Now another...

The Rod is a 10' set up as spinning using both a stradic 2500 or 4000, (I know concept is designed for a single reel, but I am cheating a little for versatility) This rod is for surf fishing, hopefully tossing lighter metal (3/4 to 1 3/4) with maximum casting distance and light weight being prime factors in build. I tie small knots, typically either bimini to alberto, or a doubled connection like that. So I will have a knot, then a doubled section, then a slightly larger knot passing through the guides on each cast. I intend to use bite leaders around 18-30".

Can I reasonably expect a leader knot made as described with the lines noted below go through my proposed concept build using BMNAG-8J's as the last 4 guides to the tip?

The line combos I use are:
8, 10 (rarely 14)lb braid to 10, 20 or 25lb flouro
8,10, 12lb mono to 10, 20 or 25lb flouro

All guides are Fuji Bmnag Concept. The guides set up as such:

Sizing:
Present
25
20
12
12
10
10
10
10
10 ring tip

Alternate 2
25
20
12
10
8
8
8
8
10 ring tip.


So, what do you all think, can line with knots like I described work with the BMNAG-8J's shown in my alternate 2?

Thanks



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2009 02:09PM by Tommy Lindsay II, PMP.

I don't know about your knots, but why use BMNAG? For a spinning rig that size I would use BYAG. They are plenty strong. With braid you don't need a large ring and you can definitely step down quickly (read TK on the NC system). I would probably go BYAG25, BYAG16, then BYAG12 or 10 followed by BLAG8 running guides (whatever gives the right line path); but you should definitely not need more than 4 different guides sizes, and maybe only three. I would think 8s would handle small knots fine.

Hi Tommy,

Saw this and had to chime in here. The BMNAG's are a fine guide for surf rods indeed due to their height and frame style (press-fit). The knots on the lighter/thinner lines should work okay with the 8mm rings however I don't do that type of fishing so others would have a better idea then me. I always try to go as small as possible.

My plug was for the our new guides NBRLA / NCRLA based on Marty's idea. I agree single foot guides would be sufficient and will allow the rod to perform better with half the wraps and a smaller overall foot print from each guide. The BYAG's are a good guide as well however I have to plug my products which offers everything the BYAG does plus a much better qualtiy insert with a slighlty larger ID and the "Ringlock" frame design. The RL design will protect against ring loss and is ideal for knots continously passing through the guides. I hope you might consider them.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Only you can determine if your knots will pass those guides.

.............

Tommy,
If you have another rod, that is set up with size 10 guides, try doing a temporary wrap with an 8 guide near the tip and do some practice casting with the knot you intend to tie.

Nothing like trying the actual line, knots and casting plug to verify a design.

My general thought is that you intend to use a size 10 tip, why would you want to use a size 8 guide further up the rod.

On the other hand, if you find that a size 8 guide works all right for your knots, then continue with a size 8 tip.

The entire issue with your setup is the line, knot, and leader that you intend to use.

If you didn't have to deal with the different lines and knot, you could go to even smaller guides just fine.

The other thing to consider is to simply avoid passing any knot through any of your guides or tip.

If so, I would use something like a size 25, 16, 10, 8, 7, and 6 for as many running guides and size 6 tip.
Forget about running the knot through the guides and you will have a lighter and more enjoyable rod to use.

Take care
Roger

If you are using leaders that have a maximum length of 30 inches, there is really not much reason to have the knots go through the guides and tip.

It is very easy to cast a plug, starting with 30 inches of line hanging off the tip. You simply need to have a bit more room and start your cast a bit differently.

Here in the midwest we routinely use very long leaders for certain style fishing that we do. i.e. live bait fishing for walleye.
In these instances, we never run the knots and or hardware through the tip or guides. Thus, we routinely use size 6 running guides and tip.

For your case, if you use the maximum line size of 10-14 lb test braid line, you will have absolutely no issue at all with using size 6 running guides and tip.

Thanks folks !!!

I can pass a 10# to 30# mono through my 6's (although its not perfect as the rod wasnt built for that). The fact that I CAN do that however tells me 8's should suffice. I usually use 10's for passing 80 braid to 80# mono and they do pass them very well, but do not cast far as they are bottom rods. I'd personally set it up with 8's taped in place and see how it works. If they are too small, use the 10s, but I would recommend BLAGs (fuji) or NBLRFs (american tackle).

The weight difference between the 8 and 10 flys wont be much and probably not really noticeable, but between fly guides and the BMNAG 10s you have currently proposed the difference will be drastic. For that reason I would stay with the 10s as you know they will pass your knots easily and well, but with the fly guides, you will see a significant weight savings in an area that matters most.

Setup would look somewhere around here 25 - 16 - 10 - 10F out to a lite top (BFAT) (where F is fly)

To increase casting distance is actually easy.
You must increase the tip velocity of the rod and decrease friction losses to the line.
Both can be achieved with sacrifices mainly durability.
Decrease and respace the number of guides.
This will put more stress on the line but will reduce friction.
Remove as much weight as possible from top 30% of the rod length.
This will increase tip velocity at a loss of durability.
Use guides without an insert to reduce weight at a given ID for your knots.
Use single foot guides to reduce weight.
Recoil titanium single foot.
Use a large loop fly tip top to reduce weight.
Titanium is approx 1/2 the weight of steel.
These guides will groove over time and may need replacement. Plan for it.
These guides will also be rougher on the line while playing a fish forcing line replacement.
When casting stop abruptly at end of stoke to increase tip velocity.
Use the lightest line you can handle to reduce line friction. Replace as needed.
Use the largest guide ID possible in the lower 30% of the blank to reduce friction.
Distance increases of 10-40% can be realized depending upon how far these are pushed.
Replacing a tip top, guide, or line is the price for increasing performance.