I am building my first fly rod, been building Spinning rods for a couple of years now, but never a fly. A friend wants me to try to build him a 9 wt saltwater rod, anyone have any good links to measurements, placements, handle lengths, etc... Looking forward to the challenge.

Your best bet is to look at a commercially produced fly rod. They're not any different than the spinning rods you've been building, the grip simply sits in front of the reel seat. Everything else is done the same way.

.............

XF909-4
Rainshadow RX8 Travel Fly Rod

Component Part Number Part Description
Rod Blank Model # XF909-4 9' 4pc 9wt Fly RX8 Graphite
Butt cap: CEVAFB-2 1.5" Cork EVA Fighting Butt
Reel Seat: RYSW-SG Forecast Window seat Gunsmoke/aluminum/ black laser fish logo and trim ring
Reel Seat Shim:
Grip: HEFW7.375S-350/865 7.375" Fly Grip .350 bore/.865 R/S cut out SUPER Grade with cork composite
Winding Check: LTCWC365 Lt TitCar Pltd Winding Check .365 I.D.
Hookeeper: TCHKS Hook Keeper TiCarb Sm
Tip Top XTCFTL4.5 SS316 Titanium Carbide Pltd Fly Top 4.5 Tube Large Loop
Guides (see below for size and quantity) XTCSNGP SS316 Titanium Carbide Snake Guide
Guides (see below for size and quantity) XTCLXNCG ALPS SS316-LXN Guide with Tich 'Z' ring -TiCH without chrome

Guide order from the tip top Guide Guide Placement - In inches from the tip top
1st XTCSNGP3 3.5"
2nd XTCSNGP3 8"
3rd XTCSNGP3 13.25"
4th XTCSNGP3 19.25"
5th XTCSNGP3 27.25"
6th XTCSNGP4 35.75"
7th XTCSNGP5 44.75"
8th XTCLXNCG12 54.25"
9th XTCLXNCG16 65.5"
10th XTCLXNCG20 77.5"

Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com

I was going to suggest you contact Batson, but I see Karry beat me too it. I've built several on the RX8 blank and it is a very nice, fast action blank, particularly well suited to Saltwater. If you really want something special though, try out the RX8+. It is one of the most amazing blanks I have ever cast. Of course it costs over twice as much.

John,

You've stepped into the vast expanse of the numerous possibilities of adequately fulfilling the niche of constructing the ultimate weapon to render prey helplessly slayed - a CUSTOM FLYROD. Problem is, what are those prey specifically, or will there be a variety of such prey? Casting from a boat or wading? Sinking lines? Bigger hands that require a thicker grip? Too numerous are the variables to give such a cookie cutter of an answer to, contrary to what the above "product pusher" would apparently like you to think. We'll need more "particulars."

Wire guides for a rod you plan to throw a 9 wt. line on?! Please Karry! Even you must have a better set of high performance guides than DOUBLE FOOT WIRE SNAKES for a "saltwater rod." Guide spacing?! What's custom about a rod with YOUR pre-determined guide spacing? Don't get me wrong, I own a couple of your blanks. They have their "place".

By the way as Tom can well attest to, there's "no such thing as a 9 weight flyrod." How far is he planning to throw this 9 weight line? i.e., Will he want to "load" the rod immediately at shorter distances, or watch his fly disappear around the curvature of the earth? Does he like a fast action, medium fast action, medium action (or so on) rod?

ALL of the variables need to be considered when building a CUSTOM ROD. Spend some time in the LIBRARY of this website. You will become more endowed with knowledge to assist you in "building a better mousetrap."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2009 12:42AM by Torin Koski.

So many variables, but great points made, Thank you. The rod will be used mainly for bonefishing, and occasional striper fishing. Long casting is important, and to tell you the truth, I have heard many opinions made about the guide selection, so I am entirely unsure as to what is "best".

If you were going to build a rod to cast from a boat, aimed at bone fish and small stripers, in the 9' range, fast action, what would you go for. I am looking to be conservative when it comes to cost, so that is also a factor. I think I have the grip I want to build in mind, so that is fine, but ideas or components from past rods that have worked well would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all.

John,
Hi.
Re guides: If you go to the left border and click on a vendor - like Mud Hole just for instance. Go to guides and you will find American Tackle (Titan), Pacific Bay(Pac Bay), Fuji and REC. It may be only my opinion but those are the standards.

As far as "the best" - I am sure each builder will have their favorites. Mine happen to be Fuji Titanium frames with SiC rings for ceramics. The Fuji's are like pieces of jewelry. No nicks or burrs.
The other favorite of mine are the REC single foot (heavy-wire) recoil guides. For a 9wt line I would use #3's. If you wish you can go all the way with the REC product and use there recoil strippers. Those are also a favorite of mine depending on the application. They are less expensive than the Fuji's and lighter. Some say they "sing" (noise) but only when the line is dirty or dry. A combination I use frequently is Fuji's for the strippers and REC s/f recoils for the running guides. For the real seat I would use the REC RSLL or RSLS because bushings are available that are the exact size of the i/d of the seat. Real easy to use. I like the REC recoil tip-top also but some do not like the way they look and opt for a conventional fly rod tip-top.

Personally, for the salt, I would stay with the Fuji titanium and the REC recoils to avoid discoloration over time.

Rubberized cork makes for nice trim on the fighting butt and fore grip. Makes it more less likely to be damaged also.

Re blank - I don't think you can go wrong with a Dan Craft Five Rivers (FT) in an 8wt just because the blank has so much reserve power that it can easily be lined with a #9 and even with a #10 if your friend wishes to throw some larger flys.

Perhaps others with different opinions will chime in.

Good luck.
Herb

Dear Torin,

"Wire guides for a rod you plan to throw a 9 wt. line on?! Please Karry! Even you must have a better set of high performance guides than DOUBLE FOOT WIRE SNAKES for a "saltwater rod." Guide spacing?! What's custom about a rod with YOUR pre-determined guide spacing? Don't get me wrong, I own a couple of your blanks. They have their "place".


I assure you my spacings and guide choices are very functional and will help more than it will hurt to help grow this industry and bring new builders. Someone like you may not need this type of information and I completely respect that, but to discourage it? I have to say that Batson Enterprises has helped thousands of first time builders to get through there first rod with these recommendations and I would have to believe that thousands more will appreciate it in the future.

Karry Batson
Batson Enterprises Inc.
Ph: (877) 875-2381
Fax: (360) 683-3579
karry@batsonenterprises.com
www.batsonenterprises.com

That's great Karry, but as he's stated he's been building rods for a couple of years now, so he doesn't "fit" into your category of a first-time builder. He is merely a first time FLY rod builder, and to encourage one "set" method for building a rod (even to a genuine first-timer) doesn't exactly help anyone - let alone OUR craft. They might as well buy a factory pre-made rod. It's odd how I don't ever see American Tackle, Pacific Bay or other manufacturers diving into this forum to round up every would-be "newbie."

Torin,

I feel your "product pusher" comments are unwarranted. Karry Has provide information that John can evaluate.

Herb,

He provided nothing more than a RECIPE on how to make "chicken soup" using only HIS ingredients. Most often, the best soup is made using a variety of ingredients. Some manaufacturers excel in areas where others do not. It is up to us (including you) to inform others of the benefits of branching out from the "norm" to experiment and evaluate the variety of offerings and techniques available to us. If you feel that Batson is a one stop shop for ALL of these ingredients, then all the more power to you! I don't find every single blank or component they produce to be the very best for EVERY fishing application under the sun. But to defend Batson, I don't feel there's a single manufacturer out there that provides every ingredient necessary to complete any one custom rod (that I've personally built) to it's fullest potential. As I said, some excel in places where others do not. We are all here to provide our input, not just the manufacturers.

I have been thinking about initiating a thread that thanks Karry for his product advise for some time. It appears now is the time. Where I live there is only one (somewhat limited) stocking parts source and while I appreciate the proprietor's assistance, I see interesting parts in the sponsor's catalogs but frequently get lost in the nomenclature - esp for guides. Example: the last King Salmon rod I built ordering parts on my own from the sponsors (confident that I knew what I was doing), turned out really cool... until I discovered the reel seat was a bit too small for the reel's feet. Dang!

For folks like me making 5 or 6 rods a year, Karry's efforts are greatly appreciated. In fact, as they show up I have been saving them for future reference.

When once Karry assisted me, I made darn sure I ordered from him. Assistance offered, assistance accepted, sound business practice followed - a satisfactory outcome for both of us.

Thank you Karry, for your assistance to me in the past and your outreach to others in need.

The really cool thing about this forum is the outreach and gentlemanly discourse that is found here. Let's maintain the high level of civility please.

Pesco Ergo Sum

Again if this outfit is a one stop shop for you, all to more power to you. I'm not intending to be "ungentlemanly", but I would actually be VERY surprised if there's not more out there like me who have asked why this outfit continuously swoops in with such a comprehensive Single-Minded method of pushing their product. I have not seen this kind of behavior coming so consistently from any other manufacturer that frequents this board. I honestly feel like "I'm taking one for the team" for those who have not yet had the courage to stand up to this type of overly aggressive "product pitch".

Other manufacturers (i.e.-American Tackle) have at least taken the time to provide substantial reasoning behind WHY they specifically recommend their product for a specific application. If you carefully review the many numerous posts in which these other manufacturers have chimed in with their recommendations, you will be pleasantly surprised to find that they occasionally recommend and praise products produced by manufacturers OTHER than theirselves. This is the kind of cooperative spirit that myself, as well as others have appreciated.

Have you ever been into a tackle shop and heard the salesman praise one brand of product to death? I have. I can't tell you how many times I've been into a fly shop, got into a discussion about fly rod building, and been told by their salesman that if I built more rods like "Brand X", I'd have better rods that more people would buy. Or, "...if it's good enough for "Brand X" then it's good enough for me..."

We - the end users - are the trend setters. WE decide what WE want out of our gear. We are then set to task - to produce a product that is not readily availabe by "Brand X". It's unfortunate that we are left to defend ourselves to justify our efforts. I'm merely trying to offer an alternative approach to producing a product that might perform the task at hand more effectively than what "the current trend" is offering. Isn't that what we're ultimately here to do?

John asked a simple,to the point question. So far Karry has been the only person to answer his question. His question was about "measurements, guide placement, handle lengths,etc." It is quite obvious Karry gave him something to work with, information to look at.

One may not agree with Karry, but a question was asked and he answere with his OPINION. That's pretty much what every post on this great forum is, an OPINION, no more, no less! While I agree that "pre canned configurations" are less than ideal, that's only MY OPINION! While one may not agree with someone's opinion, they should at least respect their right to have one

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!

Karry,

I just want to say thanks for providing the specs that you took the time to assemble and record. They provide a great starting point when approaching a build that I might be unfamiliar with.

Torin,

Approach things with an open mind, my friend. Batson's products are as good as they get, built up correctly. Your opinions come out like a sermon, but without facts.

Travis,

I actually am approaching this topic with an open mind, which is why I referenced using the LIBRARY on this site. This library offers more than one technique (or opinion) on how to construct a custom rod AND the benefits to using such techinques. I did not provide a single closed minded opinion that advised how to construct a flyrod using ONE pre-established method that involves using materials that have been the industry standard for a very long time now. I merely advised that there are more modern materials to use for this particular aplication, and that there are also more modern techniques on HOW to use these materials (i.e. - rather than using pre-determined guide spacing).

I never once said that Batson products are not good. As I have stated, I've used their products and have indeed benefitted from using their products.

To provide my specific advice on how to construct this "9 wt saltwater rod", I would first find out what type of flyrod the end user typically likes, fast action, med-fast action, med., etc., then I would find out what their budget is. If I were the end-user, I would personally opt for a med-fast action rod (as MY casting stroke dictates this to be the most versatile), with a 9' blank that has a DBI of 62-70AA/10.0-10.75ERN (Batson has some of these), an all aluminum real seat (Batson has some of these) with adequate proportions to hold my large arbor Saltwater Fly Reel. An EXTENSION Butt around 1.0" - 1.5" (for leverage and comfort during the fight). A 7" to 7.5" custom full wells grip with more thickness towards the front of the grip (because I'm more comforted with such a grip geometry on larger flyrods). And ceramic ring guides with TITANIUM Frames (for reduced weight and corrosion resistance). I would do a static deflection test to determine the optimal guide spacing (using trigonometric functions and principals of physics too detailed to get into here) that would maintain both the rod blanks natural curvature during casting as well as it's proportional stress distribution under most (normal) loads. This of course is my opinion as to how I would set up a rod with REASONS as to why I'd set it up that way.

There are so many different products available. As I have stated I personally feel that there are some manufacturers that excel in some areas where others simply do not. This is why I personally research, and experiment with products from SEVERAL manufacturers until I find each respective component that will be utilized to benefit the final product's optimum performance (and value) for the SPECIFIC USE. For example, I find that the best light line flyrods are built using Manufaturer X blanks, but when building a heavier salt water fly rod Manufacturer Y produces a better product than X does for that specific application. The same often holds true for components. The same often holds true for construction techniques.

I'm afraid I may have come across a little too agressively here, and I sincerely apologize. But I don't own up to the closed mindedness here. I merely took a stand using the wrong approach or avenue. ; )

Torin.

Torin,

Your point is well taken and certainly valid, however, I think you read Karry's post out of context a bit. The folks at Batson Enterprises are not insisting that anyone follow their specs when building a rod. Rather, they have spent time and energy to make things easier for the first time builder who may find this whole rod building affair to be a somewhat daunting task. We want them to try their hand at it - not walk away in disgust or confusion.

What you and I take for granted at this stage in our rod building careers, is that rod building is fairly easy and you can easily build a better rod than you can buy. But the first time builder is not so sure. For many, they want and indeed benefit from a bit of a "cookie cutter" approach. If someone takes the time and effort to lay things out for them; to make it very simple and very easy for them to get that first rod under their belt, so much the better.

I think Karry's posts outlining components and spacings does more to encourage first time builders than to discourage them. And once they get a rod or two under their belt, they will almost surely venture out into the world of static stress distribution, test casting and that sort of thing. But let's allow them to walk before suggesting they run. Karry is walking with them and helping them get started. I think that's a great thing for a manufacturer/distributor to take the time to do. Thanks.

..............

I guess I should step in for a moment and thank you guys. I know that no rod should follow any standard guide lines, but I was hoping for some general help, and I think I got that. If anyone else has some ideas, the more the better.