I just finished a rod which I used HBSG guides, wrapped with size D thread, and finished with Aftcote & TM. First time it was flexed, teh epoxy cracked on a couple of guides, which isn't out of the ordinary with heavy guides on longer blanks that bend a bit. What is strange, is a couple of the guides "squeak" each time the rod is flexed, or even when teh rod is shaken. Sounds like somoene's rolling aroud in bed, lol.

I usually do not use D thread, and I think this is causing the guide to move around under the epoxy. Maybe I didn't use enough tension, maybe I should have double wrapped. GOnna cut them off and rewrap, but before I do any ideas what's causing it?

The finish is working against the frame. It's fine and the "squeak" will go away after a few weeks use.

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Tom is right, as usual.

Some guides will squeak until used a few times.

Resist the temptation to use too much thread tension to try to correct it. This will cause the rod to 'go oval' during stress and invite breakage.

I have also found that shortening the guide wraps themselves to just a few turns prior to the beginning of the guide foot helps for some reason. C2

TOm, the problem is the rod is going to sit in a rack in a tackle shop, nobody is going to buy a rod that makes noise unless it hooks up to an Ipod. I'm not worried abotu the rod breaking, it's a 50-80#. I'm not going to button down all the way, just more than I did. This never happens when I use A or B thread, I gotta get used to working with and finishing with D.

I couldn't take it, so I cut all the guides off. First thing I noticed, is the thread didn't pop right off like a shell, which I was used to when I cut off guides wraps. What didn't seem to be a slopy epoxy job, turned out that I did have a considerable amount of build up between the frame and teh underwrap. Not along the sides, but underneath the ring wher eI couldn't really see. I normally do not put epoxy on theunderwrap between teh guide feet for this reason, but I did have a few bare spots in this underwrap so I did coat it on this particular rod, I think that led up to teh problem.

I know it has been mentioned, but I'm not sure - but based on hw hard it was to cut the epoxy off this rod, it seems like Aftcote has changed their formulation to cure harder. I just bought new bottles, after I finally used up my original ones that I got 3 years ago. I have to go back and do some testing with Threadmaster & Aftcote again.

Aftco buys their epoxy from another source, and sometimes the source can change the formula without the buyer even knowing it.

The squeak problem won't happen every time, nor on every guide. You can't duplicate it, nor exactly prevent it. Build enough rods and it will happen sooner or later, but there is no particular cure for it that aware of other than a little use.

Put a tag on the rod that tells the customer it has a built in "strike detector" and squeaks when a fish hits the bait.

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Silly Billy just add oil!

Steve;

I'm sure that your remark was somewhat tongue in cheek, but it's truer than thought.

I have sprayed my guides with WD-40 to stop the squeak and it worked(or so I thought). It probably quit by itself but I feel good about it.

I use my machine to flex the new builds. They are flexed 20-30 times before the customer sees it. I also turn up the shop radio when delivering.

Have a nice day. I'm working on a new peewee pole surf rod to get ready for the Pompano. Spiral wrap with 'teeny' guides on it.

Bill Stevens would be proud! C2

"strike detector", that's really funny and I am going to have to use it.

I hear of this issue a lot and have encountered it myself in manufacturing. Not sure why Billy's rod makes noise, could be the stiff elongated design of the stainless guides or maybe no underwrap. I have often been asked by manufacturers about good ways to avoid this, of course I always say to buy our flexible titanium guides. If they don't bite, I give them my experience with the problem.

1. Underwraps (I call them base-wraps) usually fix the issue except many factories finish the base wrap before wrapping the guide and then applying finish to the guide foot wraps later. To avoid sqeak in that case I used a softer finish on the base wrap that would not make noise when the guide foot slide back and forth as the rod was deflected. It also helped my out-wrappers secure the guides since the thread would dig in a bit and not slide around on the finished base wrap.

2. When not using underwraps only a single or double top wrap on the guide foot, the problem is the finish on the blank. Some companies have a very hard finish on their blank that will squeak as the guide feet slide back and forth when as the rod is deflected. (some companies with softer finish on their blanks don't have a squeak) Sometimes it goes away in time as the blank gets scored under the guide foot. I have roughed up the finish underneath a bit to help prevent the noise.

3. I have also seen a couple rods where a "clicking" noise came from the guide when as the blank is deflected. I beleive this is due to foot preparation on flexible stainless frame guides with a longer foot spread. This can be fixed by foot angle manipulation.

4. Flexible guide frames will help as well, of course this is my plug for our new Titan Ringlock guides. Honestly though, I encountered the problem recently with one of my prototype rods using our standard Atlas SS316 guide sets and the noise is embarrassing. Interestingly, not a single rod where I used our Titan Turbos or any of the new Ringlock or Titan Ringlock guides did the squeak happen. I beleive that if the frame flexes as the rod is deflected, there is less movement of the guide foot and less of a chance noise will occur.

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Squeaky guides are the reason I decided to build my first rod and buy your book Billy. I was bait fishing fishing with my 1970s 9 foot rod in the Sacramento river and realized I forgot my magic thread to wrap my bait on the hook. All the finish on my rod had long disappeared and the thread was coming off the guide, so I unwrapped it a little and used it to tie on my bait, did that a few times and my guides started to make on @#$%& of a noise. Couldnt bare to get rid of this rod so here I am, and much poorer I might add.....