I hope this has not been asked yet. Just got my issue of Rodmaker today. What a GREAT issue! (Mobile lathe stand solved one of my recent problems in needing to mount a large LCD screen on wheels....but that's off topic...:)

Bobby, thanks for sharing your technique.

Anyways 2 questions on the label article.

1. The article notes that on should use only dye ink. Dye is notoriously unstable under sunlight. The UV light fades dye ink. Hours of exposure in a fishing rod doesn't seem to bode well for dye ink. Does the Epoxy finish stop UV light penetration? How long have you used dye ink on your rods? Wondering about longevity since a good rod well taken care of will receive many years of direct sunlight.
(Pigment ink is one reason I switched to Epson recently. )

2. Have you or anyone tried permagloss over the label? Or must it be epoxy?

Thanks,
Mo

ps: Quick addition. Went on the site you suggested for a source of 'paper' and the note this, "Using our white waterproof inkjet vinyl and your inkjet printer you can create durable outdoor bumper stickers and labels. For the ultimate in durability use a printer which takes advantage of a solvent based ink, such as the Epson Durabrite inks. Stickers made with traditional dye based water soluble inks are also waterproof when made with this material, but will not resist fading as well as solvent based inks. Please browse our selection of white waterproof vinyl below, available with permanent and removable adhesive." The Epson Durabrite is a pigment ink. Did you not find it to provide good results? Thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2009 01:17AM by Mo Yang.

Dura-Brite, as well as the other archival ink types, will puddle on the metallic and holographic papers as noted in the article. There is a work around for this, also noted in the article, and the company says they are working on newer media types that will be compatible with the newer type solvent based inks.

.............

Mo

Great questions.

I have always used the solvent based ink "Vivera" on my HP All In One printer and have never used any other brands of ink nor have I used the dye based inks. The issue with the solvent based inks is only on the foil and holographic paper not on the waterproof vinyl. Tom Kirkman arthured the "Ink Warning" paragraph in the article because he did indeed have ink puddling with his experiments and because of the fact that Texas Craft recognizes the issue.

Having said all that, it is still possible to create very acceptable labels on the foils and holographic paper with the solvent based inks if one experiments a little to find the best settings for his printer. If you come to the Expo, I will be demonstrating the whole process and you can see and touch many examples of labels printed on my printer. I find that the key to successfully using these papers is to let the ink dry several hours (preferably overnight) before handling.

As far as your UV question; I have some labels that are two years old that were printed on glossy adhesive backed photo paper (not the best to use because of their thickness) that show very little signs of fading. It's the epoxy that protects the ink from UV damage.

I believe Bill Stevens has experimented with using permagloss but I don't have the results. He'll probably chime in.

The white vinyl is the stuff Texas Craft is referring to for bumper stickers and it is very durable with most inks. This media is very near "bullet proof" and makes a great lable or decal.

Hope this helps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2009 08:02AM by Bobby Feazel.

no offense, but it seems to me it's just as easy to give decal connection a call and have the label in your mailbox three days later.

And it's just as easy to go to your local sporting goods store and buy a fishing rod rather than make one.

This isn't for everbody - and Decal Connection isn't going to lose any business over it. But just as some buy preformed grips and others choose to make their own, there is a certain freedom and opportunity for artistic creation in this technique that many craftsman will revel in.

....................

Uh,, because Decal Connect cannot make labels like these maybe? Did you see the label on the cover?

The evidence is presently being presented to the jury! I can think of no better jury of peers than those in attendance at the ICRBE next week.

I was quite surprised to find that Perma Gloss had no effect on the full color images, done with solvent based Vivera Ink, that were two weeks old on the Holoshine media which is included in the media kit available. There are differences in the various holographic media types. Holoshine is the specific media that will be used in holographic demonstrations in High Point. The demonstrations in High Point will be done with a HP printer that is less than one year old using solvent based inks.

White Vinyl - Perma Gloss does not effect the fully dried Vivera ink but does turn the white non ink covered surfaces of the decal a dull and dirty looking grey - I not have a full color decal on the white vinyl that has no white area to test.

This process will quickly develop in a highly positive manner for those who will spend the time to develop a usable system for their graphic presentations and labeling for custom rods.

The World Is Not Flat - There was a time that this statement caused problems - wait till you see how this statement applies to what you see when you look at an Electric in the light of day!

The proof is in the pudding!

[www.swamplandtackle.com]

Robert Smith: I think the best answer to your above statement is in your own words.

From one of your earlier posts on this Forum:

"Here the thing about trying to make money off of selling mechanical products to rod builders. We're notorious tinkerer's. It's why we are so enthralled with the craft. Once we see the design, it in our nature to try and do it for ourselves. Good luck, but once you let the cat out of the bag, it's out for good."

You are right on target and your ideas do not only deal with mechanical products!

We are not trying to make money off rodbuilders with this project - Bobby is giving away the "secrets" through Rodmaker and Swampland is volume buying the media so you can get it cheaper than from the supplier direct. The additional tools are identified and can be purchased locally.

Read the news: [www.swamplandtackle.com]

Spend some time - think about it - take the opportunity to test all media

Hope we have the opportunity to show it to you first hand in High Point.

Swampland Tackle

OK. I stand corrected. I wasn't aware of the possibilities until I just went to Swamplands website. Decal Connection is the best but I believe that Swampland will be getting some of my business now.

When you don't take the magazine it's hard to really stay abreast of all that's happening in the rod building world. A decal is just a decal, but these are few steps beyond mere decals.

.............

Thanks everyone.

OK, here's my understanding of all the posts in a nutshell when it comes to ink type.

1. Bobby, you are indeed using pigments with the HP. Thus you have not noticed fading. May I ask how long you have been doing this and have rods in clients hands?

2. Dye - Tom, you're the one that gave that warning in the article. You use dye, if I'm correct, for the holographic? (Although I also note that pigment should work if the load is adjusted lower so as not to over saturate the holographic media.) From my printing experience, dye is a lot more stable on MATTE papers for some reasons. I have had some for 6 years without much fading - but that is under glass normally. Glossy media however, seem to allow dye to fade much quicker based on the limited media I've used.

3. So my read is that none have actually used dye and exposed it to sunlight for considerable amount of time? Am I right about this?

I note item three in case it will indeed fade as I believe, and pretty quickly at that - my guess is after one season of fishing. If this is a potential, then I thought I'd raise this in case this may save someone some grief later. . Imagine if after a year, a custom builder have a number of clients asking for the labels to be redone because they faded. That would be a pain to do unless one wants to just cover over the old label and creating a bump on the rod from two decals on top of each other. Of course, if dye works just fine then that would be a happy bit of info as any printer would do.

Thanks,
Mo

Mo

Happy to furnish the information you request.

I have been printing labels for all my builds for a little over 2 years. Some of the oldest ones are regularily lying on the deck of my boat and except for normal wear and tear they seem as bright as the day they were printed. I have about 200 rods in customers hands and not one of them has notified me of any fading problems.

I have been using the white vinyl for about 14 months and the other three for about 4 months. Again no fading on my rods nor complaints from customers.

I have been making decals for over a decade - RodMaker has run previous articles on making decals on ink jet printers. None of the decals I've made with either dye based or solvent based decals have faded in the years I've had them on my rods, and that would be pushing 10 years now.

Anything will fade and/or degrade if given enough time in UV light, but this isn't much of an issue for decal use at the moment.

.......................

Thanks Tom.

That is by far the most definitive answer. Much appreciated. I'm truly surprised that dye ink has lasted that long - perhaps epoxy finish provides very excellent UV protection.

Thanks,
Mo

If the epoxy turns brown, yes, it provides some UV protection.

...........

I have to agree with Tom that it's hard to follow the act if you don't 'take' the program(magazine).

I subscribe to the Magazine and am waiting for it to get out here to the wilds of West Florida. I know that it's a long way from NC to Florida and do try to be patient.

So far; i have heard about the 'Story Pole; and the decals so have a limited view of 'what's happening'.

By the way, quick note.

I'm assuming it's clear that I was not being critical in asking about the 'dye' versus 'pigment' question right? Simply trying to educate myself to make sure I make no mis-steps as I try this. This board and Rodmaker Magazine has been absolutely incredible. Never have I seen the equal in generosity of sharing information anywhere in other forums.

Thought I would clarify just in case....:)

Mo

No need to clarify, I certainly took it as a legitimate concern that many may have.

...........

I really think that making custom labels on a vinyl substrate that really look good at home is a very significant issue. I don't think that ordering single decals from a decal source is very practical-every decal on every rod I've ever made has been unique. Either the owner's name, the date, comments that were not on the blank decal, something is always different from the other decals. Being able to make one of a kind decals that look professional is very important to me, and the information made available recently in the Rodmaker Magazine has applications way beyond metallic and holographic decals. It makes it possible to do just about anything that can be done on a computer.

I made a "decal" for a gift rod using a photo that the recipient of the rod had taken, used paper, matched the blank color for the background, and carefully got it onto the blank and covered with epoxy, and it did look pretty good. But being able to get vinyl media, and knowing how to use it, is much preferable to the paper route.

The decal article recently run in Rodmaker Magazine is a good example of the wonderful information that is available either in the magazine or in this forum. I've said many times, and it's still true, I just cannot visit the forum or the magazine without learning something of value.

Amen to your comment Michael. Can't believe that I had let my Rodmaker subscript lapse a couple of years ago. Won't be making that mistake again!

Mo