I know this topic comes up a lot but I need help/opinions from the experts. I am wrapping an 8' Calstar E-glass 270 for inshore ocean fishing. I already have an underwrap (by request from the guy I am wrapping it for). Am I good with just a single wrap on the guides or should I double? When should I and shouldn't I double wrap? It is my very first wrap for someone other then myself so I am a bit cautious. Thanx in advance. -Scott

An overwrap of D on anything under 50lb class is all you really need.

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That is a prettylight saltwater rod.... single wrap should be sufficient... I would not add the bulk for a second layer.

I have built the 270's.... I use a underwrap of A, and a single guide wrap of D as suggested above....

I am not famialur with that blank. My question is why D thread when B or C well do? Sense it is a light Salt Water rod How big is this fish any way? I never use that heavy of wrap on any Salmon rod I have ever built. I use D thread on Halibut and some Sturgeon rods. Someone please answer.
Good wraps Bob

A single wrap of size A is enough to hold on the guides for just about any rod you can think of. The only non-cosmetic reason double wrapping is added abrasion resistance.

Unless I read this wrong Tom suggested D thread
Good Wraps Bob

For good wraps Bob,

I think the reason Tom suggested size D is that A and D have been the standard sizes used for years. The size C is NCP thread and is actually a larger diameter than size D regular thread. The size B is relatively new to the scene. Any or all would work just fine. I wouldn't double wrap the 270 as it's not necessary.

Bill that makes it a little clearier. I hardly ever use NCP
Good Wraps Bob

I've built on this blank as well as the 196 size, and fished both. For me the answer to your question is not in the blank but in the guides. If using the chrome Perfections or Pac Bay's in the West Coast style I would use a heavier thread or double wrap the structural thread because the guide feet are relatively inflexible and will wear through the thread and/or causing the epoxy tro crack right at the point the tip of the guide's foot meets the blank. For lighter guides, single wrap is fine, which is what I do for kingfish rods, for example, on the east coast.

-+what causes the epoxy to crack at the guide feet, the reason I ask is I have a factory built halibut rod that the epoxy is cracked at all the guide feet, and I want to build myself a couuple of these rods BUT without the epoxy cracks, thanks scotty.

In most cases the epoxy cracking is because of poor foot detailing. The foot is not flexing with the rod. The foot should have a even taper to the blank.
Good Waps Bob

In my experience, there is only so much you can do with guide foot preparation, when using relatively inflexible guides such as the Perfections or Pac Bays on flexible blanks. These blanks get really stressed when under full load with a tuna or yellowtail, and unless you whittle the guide foot down considerably you will get the cracking of the epoxy.

The composition of the foot material is usually brass with these guides, which is not the strongest, structurally (there's a reason they made them so beefy!). I would rather have the guide work rather than fail under load (or break off because the rod fell out of the rack onto the deck, due to careless deckhands or the chaos of a hot bite) hundreds of miles from the nearest repair shop, so I avoid taking too much off the guide foot.

So my solution is to double wrap those types of guides, after preparing the feet. Not a perfect solution, but a merchantable one.

This is much less of an issue with lighter guides such as the NSG, such as are more frequently used on the east coast.

Whit

Hi Scott,

Here's some of my opinons:

1. Thread, any size will work, I now typically use primarily size C for saltwater rods however size D is what I have used for the last couple of decades without issue. I consider a "double wrap" the under-wrap plus a single over-wrap on the guide feet. This style is entirely sufficient for this rod. If A thread is used you might need a second over-wrap on top of the guide feet which would make what I consider a triple-wrap which is just fine for a 270. Sometimes guys will use the smaller thread on the bottom with larger on top which helps hide the bottom thread showing through when different colors are used. (or when combining NCP with regular nylon)

2. Epoxy cracking seems to have always been an issue. The guide feet are generally stiff and can flex differently then the blank causing the crack at the edge of the foot. Most finishes crack instead of flexing. You could use a "softer" finish that flexes more or I know some guys have used some sort of addtive to promote flexing. I use thinner coats of finish. And as mentioned above, guide foot preparation makes a huge difference if you shape the foot to a longer taper toward a thin edge.

3. Guide selection. In the past. like many builders, I would build rods with the same guides for different styles and purposes- NSG's, USG's, WCG's etc. on a 196-270-670-665H etc. Now however, I will use a specific guide sizes/styles for each specific rod. American Tackle's new Virtus and standard Ringlock guides allow 3 different frame gauges to apply to different rod powers and usages. Standard Ringlock's are perfect for freshwater/light saltwater, Virtus lights are perfect for inshore/offshore uses and the Virtus heavy frames are ideal all offshore rods. They are available with stainless and solid titanium material material frames. The titanium Titan Virtus frames are the absolute best guide ever made. They will flex with the blank, decrease physical wight, never corrode, and prevent ring-loss. (even though this is all true, it's the the product plug I just had to include)

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Ahh the old thread strength myth. It just won't die.

a SINGLE layer of A is strong enough to hold the guides onto the blank FOR ANY APPLICATION. If you doubt I challenge you to do the following. Take a broom stick of a blank, on that just won't flex and an Aftco #41 roller guide. Wrap the guide onto the blank using Gudebrod size A thread. Only don't wrap the whole length of the foot. Just make single layer wraps that are 1/2" long in the center of the foot. No color preservative, no finish. Now try and pull the guide off the blank.

I've done this and did the pulling with a scale. It took an average of 41# to remove the guide. And the wraps did not fail. What allowed the guide to be removed from the blank was the fact that the guide frame distorted, the feet moved closer together which allowed them to slip out from under the wraps.