I'm sure, but even those aren't as high as a 20 or 25. I think if you get the first couple guides up higher (you'll have to figure out how to do it) it'll work even better. The higher you go, the closer you can set the butt guide.

It wouldn't look too swift, but it is possible to add height to about any of these guides if you have another guide you're willing to sacrifice for the leg and frame. It would be an interesting experiment.

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See if you can find the Fuji match rod spinning guide used in Europe in a 10 and compare the height with existing guide frames - there are several people working on releasing infomation on guides and tops that we can all look forward to recieving.

Tom,
I’m sure you’re right. My goal was to derive a set-up that would cast braid as well as my other rods using the NGC (hybrid) set-ups which had the larger (25, 12, etc) guides. Unfortunately, using available components was a limiting factor. One of the trade-offs I made to get satisfactory performance was trading height for size. The net gain being primarily weight. I did find it interesting that during the course of my testing, I got no discernable casting difference by interchanging a #12 “M” guide with a BYAG12, which is about .2” shorter.
I’m convinced that the use of braid is far more forgiving to the downsizing of both ring size and height, but I really didn’t spend much time testing with mono.
What I have concluded, based on my testing, is that my optimum set-up (with my rod, reel, line) is a size 12 butt guide (the hi-framed Batson BMLG or Fuji BYAG, TYSG, TATSG “Y” framed guides), located 19” to 20” from the spool face, followed by a size 8 (“Y” type), a 5.5 or 6 (fly type) and 3.5 or 4’s to the tip.
I hope to re-build two of my spinning rods this week using Fuji TATSG12, TATSG8, TLSG5.5 and LSG3.5’s to the tip. Tip will be an LSG3.5 wrap-on. As weather permits, I’ll fish these rods to determine if actual conditions or variables affect performance that was not revealed in my testing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2009 07:54AM by jim spooner.

The Fuji BMYAG match guides are just that little bit higher, but only available up to size 10. The 10 sits between the BYAG 10 and 12.

Jim,
If working on a spinning rod style guide setup, and the fisherman wants to use heavy lb test line, you need to be concerned with line drag in the first guide as well as line slap.

I have often seen that if using heavy mono line - like 30-80 lb line, as the line loops spool out, there is significant friction and catching on the first guide if not large enough.

The reason for size 40 or even size 50 guides on surf rods, wanting very long casting distances - using heavy mono line then becomes very self evident.

If one were to downsize this first guide to a size 10 or 12 -- one would find very very significant reduction in casting distances.

Guides of all sizes and heights have their correct uses and placement.

Just use good judgement and use the right size guide and height for the particular rod, line being used, as well as the needs and wishes of the final rod user.

Take care
Roger

Roger,
You’re right on all counts, but we’re talking about a very narrow scope of use here….namely 10 to 15 test braided line on a FW spinning rod. In fact, more specifically, a given reel, line brand, etc.
You said, “Just use good judgment and use the right size guide and height for the particular rod, line being used, as well as the needs and wishes of the final rod user.”
Sometimes good judgment comes from questionable sources…or as the old saying goes, “If something is done “wrong” often enough, it becomes “right”…..been there, done that. LOL

The more "limp" or supple the line, the more forgiving everything is. That's for sure.

Guide ring size has been proven to be less important, overall, than frame height where the butt guide is concerned. This is something we've known for a good while now.

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Jim, coming to this thread late. I'll just note that with very flexible braids (i.e. old well used braid or even Fireline) the guide setup makes very little difference in casting distance. In fact, I've tested the huge spool Supercasteres and the tiny size 500 Daiwas and they both cast about the same distance with light braids. This led me to conclude that braids are very forgiving of guide setups. The stiffer and more memory a line, the greater the difference good guide setup makes. Just my opinion.

Mo

Mo,
I agree. Braids do seem to be far more forgiving than mono or fluoro. I still think it’s worth the effort optimize the set-up. The down side is that with the rod set up for braid, it does not perform well with mono, whereas, with the “normal” NGC, it’ll work for both….with a slight weight penalty.

Yes, my thought is that IF I know I'm using only light braids (4-6 lb braids) AND using a true UL blank that I want to have maximum sensitivy and recovery, then I'll actually violate the NGC concept and just get the choke guide much slower to the reel. I started fishing using ONLY braided so this will work but recently switched to mono in 2lbs simply because they are less visible to the fish.

Mo