I have a question regarding balancing a Bass baitcasting rod without a reel on it. Where would you say the balance point should be? If using an exposed grip reelseat. Should it be right on the exposed blank on the reel seat (basically in your hand? Should it be above the reelseat (no foregrip)?

I know that adding the reel will change everything but there will not be one specific reel used on this rod. I cannot seem to find a spot on the rod where it just floats, it always favors weight in the tip. I am using an EXTREMELY lightweight blank, 6'6" medium power fast action, fuji exposed grip reelseat cut to 4", split grip eva foam handle with no weight on the butt end.

Just wondering what everyone does to consider a rod balanced. I really want it to just float in my hand.

Thanks
-Mike

That's a tough one Mike. I only balance when I know what reel is going on there, and preferrably with the spool fully loaded with the preferred line. If you are using a newer low profile, the reel will end up weighing between about 6 and 9 ounces.

That's not a huge deviation but could be when you are talking about balancing to get a float feel.

This really sounds like a job for an adjustable type device. Scott Sheets and Mike Harris have a really nice set up. I think I would consider that. Then you could change the balancing weight as needed for any reel.

My personal standard for a balanced rod is for the balance point to be even with the center of the reel spool. This way the core weight of the rig is in your hand and the rod does not pull on either side.

However, if you don't palm a reel, you may actually prefer the balance point to be further back, actually on the backside of the reel... just a thought

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To me it depends upon the intended use of the rod. If it is for a technique that requires the tip to be down, like crankin' or any other horizontal baits, I like the rod to be a little tip heavy. Conversely, for techniques that require the tip to be up, I prefer the rod to be a little butt heavy. To me, this allows for the most comfort and sesnitivity in a casting rod. I hope this helps...

I agree with Trinity, as will most all my Bass Tourney fishermen friends. I would suggest using the balance weight system on the very butt of the rod when building a Worming or Pitching rod. Otherwise I use the Micro guides exclusively for all other techniques to get rid of forward weight.

Like everyone else says to balance or not to balance is determined by technique and preference. But if you are going to balance you may as well use an adjustable kit that puts all of the weight off of the end of the blank, by having the weights as far as possible from the reel your weights are more efficient and you can get by with less overall weight for the same balance correction. Also by being able to change out different weights or even take them out entirely you can tailor the rod to suit any situation.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

An example came when I was fishing hydrilla mats at Lake Seminole a while ago. I live in the mountains where our lakes are deep, clear, and rocky. We use 7’6” flipping sticks to fish 1oz Carolina Rigs deep in the rocks, I use balance kits on those rods to keep the tip light when I am dragging the rig along the bottom. I used the same rods in the mats to fish 2 different patterns; punching through the mats with heavy pegged tungsten weights and soft plastics, or twitching a plastic frog over the mats. It would have been wrist suicide to try to flip the heavy weights through the mats all day without the balance weights, but the way I was fishing the frog with the rod tip held down almost to the water level and short fasts twitches I found that it worked better if I took the weights off. 2 rods built the same but, with 2 different balance solutions depending on technique.

I would echo what was said above. And just to clarify. Mike Harris developed the weight system I use, I just had some weights made out of stainless instead of brass to get the look I wanted.

Scott Sheets
www.smsrods.com

Michael Ortego please use the Control Center to Unhide your email address to permit me to send you information that is too long to post - or send me an email be clicking on my name on this post.

Not only should the blank tip weight be considered with reel mounted - add a 1.5 oz jig head and raise it up 2,000 times a day and see how you like it! If your rod is properly set up you will not have to stop flipping every 15 minutes or so to rest and eat a peanut butter and jelly samwich for energy shots!

All the micro guys are excited - this spiral wrapped micro rod is in the hands of an Elite fisherman being field tested.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Thanks



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2009 03:27PM by Bill Stevens.

I cant find the control center. Feel free to e-mail me @ javelin_2@hotmail.com. I want the rod to balance as close to neutral as possible WITHOUT adding any additional weight. I do understand the difference for feel bait rods and crankbait rods, my preference for both is a neutral balance before adding a reel. My general question is, when you build a rod that you want to be neutrally balanced, where do you measure balance from? In front of the reel seat or middle of reel seat (palming)? Is the rod always a little tip heavy until adding the reel or can you ever find a neutral balance without the reel hooked up, and no weight added to the butt?

Just for reference, the blank I am using is very light. It is 6'6" Medium power fast action and weighs less than 1.3oz!!!!! There is no problem with anything weighing too much so I cant figure out why, no matter where I slide the reel seat it still feels tip heavy, and this is without guides on....

Thanks for all the comments,

-Mike

Michael,

For example, when I was working on my crankbait rod (Rainshadow RX7 CB66M), I found that if I wanted a neutrally balanced rod, it would take about a 12" or 13" handle, not that I wanted to balance that rod, but I was curious. So, without extra weight, it may require a significantly longer handle than you want. I like my handles between 9" and 10", as long as the rod isn't too tip heavy.

If you are palming the reel, hold the rod just as you would while fishing, and balance to whatever point on the reel seat that corresponds to the center of your palm. When you add the reel, while palming, the weight will be above you hand, with the bulk of the weight near the fulcrum, and should not affect the balance all that much. I would think that would be the best you could do for palming without balancing to a specific reel.

Joe

One curious thing about all this balance conversation for bass rods:

Do you fish with a rod only - no

Do you add a reel - sure

Do you normally add a lure - sure

Does the addition of a reel and lure wt change the balance point of any "fishing system" - yes

The balance point determination with reel added is one of the qualifying points for the Tackle Tour reviewers of rods entered into the ICAST Best of Show evaluation.

Are there techniques that MAY require different set ups? - sure

Should the balance question be settled by only one answer - probably not

Bass rods are said to be task specific -

The balance issue is most probably dealt with as Alex D. said previously under "fisherman specific conditions"

Interesting subject huh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2009 01:20PM by Bill Stevens.

For sure it comes down to technique and preference.

That Batson balance kit looks nice, but a 2oz step seems like a lot. Mine has ¼ oz steps at ¼ the price…

My question for balance has nothing to do with a reel or a lure. I am only wondering if anyone has ever balanced a rod without the reel on it and acheived a level balance with no/very little tip weight, and not adding any additional "balancing" weights. I know you need to add a reel to fish with, I know you need line on the reel and I know you need a lure to cast to catch something when you go fishing. But at this point I am not fishing I am in my shop trying to acheive a level balance on a rod that does not yet have guides on it. Once I get the rod balanced the guides will again make it tip heavy then the reel will more than counter balance that, but I want to start as close to neutral as possible.

I know I will catch alot of flack for this, but I dont agree with building a rod based on a specific reel. Customers spend alot of money on these rods and should be able to buy new reels with new technology as they become available and use them on the same rod even if there is a 2oz difference in the reel. But thats just my $0.02.

Ready, aim, FIRE!!!!!

Thanks for the help, I think??

You have already answered your own question in the first post, no you can’t do it.

There are very few things that affect balance of the rod. The inherent balance point of the selected blank we don’t have any control over, except to change to a different blank. Eliminating weight in front of the balance point we have a lot of control over, and we should do everything possible to reduce weight of the guides and wraps. Handle length has a huge effect, but to compromise the ergonomic issues of handle length in the search of balance is very counter productive. Sure you could build your 6’6” rod with an 18-20 inch handle, it would be perfectly balanced but it wouldn’t be very comfortable to fish with. You should build the handle to the most comfortable length to fish with, and leave no stone unturned to reduce the weight of the guides and wraps. If that still doesn’t give you the feel that you prefer adding weight to the butt end is the only option left. It is never something that we would prefer to do, and even though I make balance kits I only actually only have them installed on about ¼ of my own rods. The rest I don’t feel the need for the techniques I am using them for.

You are correct that on a baitcasting rod the actual weight of the reel has little effect on balance, since it is either at or very close to the neutral point. Lighter reels make every other aspect of fishing a particular combo better, just not balance.

Depends on how you hold the rod, and whether it's a tip up, or tip down style of fishing. For a rod to do both, I'd say you want nutral balance at the point where you hold the rod.

Minimizing weight ahead of the grip is vital, but remember the grip length, and the weight of the material it is made of, will contribute too. If you hold a spinner in the middle of your hand and want neutral balance there, then the weight of the reel is just added weight, just like palming a baitcaster. You can aim to balance a rod without the reel on it: just build as light as possible and try to get the balance point at the grip point. For me more often than not this is smack in the middle of the reel seat.

Very short, light grips on long rods is difficult to balance without weight. Long grips are often excessive on anything shorter than about 7 ft.
It's all a big compromise.

Mike, where would one find one of your balance kits? I'm interested in using a kit on two 7'6" flipping stiks I just started building. Never used a balance kit before so any info would be useful.
Matt