G'day folks
After reading the thread started by Bill Stevens I got to thinking. I took some long 20mm wide strips of adhesive backed neoprene strips and attacked a GT popper rod I was currently in the middle of setting up the handle. I cut 4 x 12 inch long lengths. I placed 2 strips, one on top of another, on the top of the blank where the foregrip was to go, I placed the other two strips the same way on the opposing side underneath the blank. Then I took a long length and tightly wrapped the lot from the seat to the winding check area. I then shrunk a length of Xflock shrink tubing over the lot. The result was a fairly nice feeling density but really comfortable with the way the fingers went around it. I sliced the whole thing off after to install the EVA grip that was originally meant for it bit will soon be building a test rod this way to give a good thrashing on yellowtail kingfish. I am wondering if Xflock over cork tape done this way might give even better results.......cant wait till I put my next parts order together

Also, I am just starting out in fly fishing. Pardon me if I am wrong but the hand movement I have been taught seems pretty close to the way hammers are used. I will build my 2nd 6w with cork tape this way or try to somehow cleanly and acurately sand down the sides of a preformed full wells grip and have a play

MAniform grips have had this shape for qite some time. I don't know if they are still sold though, maybe Angler's Workshop has them?

I think it will be more fun grinding down or forming the hammer handle shape then using something off the shelf. I have been stewing on this and have though off maiking a little skinny long shallow wooden trough with a mandrel fitted along its length. Space the mandrel so that once a grip is mounted, a bit of the grips sides are exposed above the trough and hit it with a sander. The lips of the trough should work well as a guide to how far down the sander cuts. When one side is done, flip the mandrel over and do the other. Once the flat sides are created, round of the hard edges with some light hand rubbing maybe. Should also work with EVA and shrink tube over this should round off the edges nicely

Rohit, I presently see only one thing that is dangerous in your postings -

Thinking Will Cause You To Soon Depart The Box Of Convention -

Welcome to life on the outside and beware of Jaws who eats the pelagics!

You are also right about the fun part!

Rohit, you may very well be on to something pretty neat and comfortable. A lot of builders have cut grooves around the EVA grip so why not try flats like an octagon or hexagon. Show us a photo when you get one finished.

Rohit, now you're gonna have rodbuilding dreams, as if you didn't have enough going on!! Have been stewing over the ideas we came up with and I am set for one grip. Now you throw another one out there and you caught me square between the eyes. Gonna have to do something now.

Yes, fly casting does very much use the same movements as a hammer. Sanding down a prefab grip will get you somewhere, but I have to say many grips on the market are very small in diameter, so by the time you trim and slim one there won't be much left to grip. I'd glue up a grip with standard rings, then rough turn to slightly oversize before having at it with the sand. I have done a grip that's basically a bit between a full wells and a half wells, and I think with with the flatter hammer handle sides it will be just as sweet feelinjg as my ergo skeletons.

Dude, a 6 wt is a good little stick, but drop to a fast 5 or a 4 and really let off some fireworks. After breaking my Cabelas 7pce Stowaway 5wt (which I dropped the butt section to have a 7 1/2 ft 6 pce 5 wt), I am going to build a Rainshadow RX7 764-4 for the little barra, GT's, tarpon and maybe a goldie. Heaps of fun!

Rohit, I would caution you on using that style of grip with flyrods. I've cast flyrods that have Maniform grips (similar to a hammer handle) and I absolutely hate them. In flycasting you will want to change your position on your grip throughout the day due to comfort as well as what technique dictates and the maniform grips allow you to comfortably grip the rod in one way and one way only! I often find that when casting drys or shooting nymphs into tight-quarter pockets, my accuracy is increased when my index finger is directly on the "backbone" of the grip pointed upwards towards the tip of the rod. In doing this my hand opens up a bit, and a narrower, hammer-like grip will be more fatigueing to grasp than a somewhat more standard concentric cylinder. Maniform grips seemed to have come and gone rapidly in the flyfishing industry for a reason.

Torin.

If it's of any help, a buddy of mine tore up a surf rod handle on a trip one time, the only thing I could find to make due for the week end was the foam wrapping tape used on a 10 speed bicycle. It worked so well that when we got back, he had me do two other rods that way and wrap the ends to keep the tape secure. It was surprisingly comfortable for a make shift grip. It worked well in super cold weather too, since it was easier to hold onto the smooth cork or EVA.

Bill
I have now got wisps of steam coming out of my ears and am bouncing off the walls....

Ted
LOL....lets get sanding. Btw...the 6w I am playing with is something very weird. I'll tell you about it one day, more squirels mate

Torin
I can see your point. Will be interesting to see if I experience the same handicap with just the hammer handle cress section. If it doesnt work, its no big dramas. I can always take it off and install a regular grip

I wonder whether the hammer handle is really relevant for fly rods. In my opinion there is a fundamental difference in that a fly rod is held with either thumb (most cases) or index finger (least cases) axially in line with the grip, whereas a hammer stroke requires all fingers and thumb to be perpendicular to the axis of the handle, wrapped around the grip in other words. This may mean different centres of gravity, or is that moment of inertia. Either way, the pressure points are different.

I have problems with conventional full wells grips, in that I form calluses on the heel, last segment of the little finger and middle segment of the ring finger of my casting hand. Although I know this sprouts from squeezing the grip too much, I do believe there may be an ergonomics solution too. At the moment I am working on a modified full wells that is the opposite of a hammer handle, in that it is very very thin where my little finger grips. The jury is still out though.

Anyway, maybe some food for thought.

Tight lines
Armand

I wonder whether the hammer handle is really relevant for fly rods. In my opinion there is a fundamental difference in that a fly rod is held with either thumb (most cases) or index finger (least cases) axially in line with the grip, whereas a hammer stroke requires all fingers and thumb to be perpendicular to the axis of the handle, wrapped around the grip in other words. This may mean different centres of gravity, or is that moment of inertia. Either way, the pressure points are different.

I have problems with conventional full wells grips, in that I form calluses on the heel, last segment of the little finger and middle segment of the ring finger of my casting hand. Although I know this sprouts from squeezing the grip too much, I do believe there may be an ergonomics solution too. At the moment I am working on a modified full wells that is the opposite of a hammer handle, in that it is very very thin where my little finger grips. The jury is still out though.

Anyway, maybe some food for thought.

Tight lines
Armand

I think a person's ability to swing a hammer , a tennis racket, an axe, a baseball bat or a golf club for hours on end is a function of a comfortable shape to grip as well as the shape of the part of the handle not gripped. All of these are designed with a knob on the end which allows you to swing them forcefully without having to grip too firmly. The knob prevents it from sliding out of your hand. Swing an axehead mounted on a piece of pipe or remove the knob from the end of a baseball bat and you would have to grip them so firmly so as not to lose them that it could not be done for long. A golf club does not actually have quite the same knob but it is tapered in such a way that the part extending above the hand is larger than what is held. The shapes of these different handles allow for some repositiong of the hand as needed without having to change grip pressure-the knob still keeps them from sliding out. Pistol gripped casting rods did the same thing-if it were not for the shape of the handle where they exit the hand-and the trigger of course-the lake would be full of them.

Alex posted a picture the other day of the grip his customers found most comfortable and it's shape provides the same thing these tool/toy handles do. That may be why they find it so comfortable.

[www.rodbuilding.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2009 11:43AM by Chris Davis.

Armand,
You might want to try a Fenwick or Gordon shaped grip to get what your looking for. The Fenwick style grip is commercially available from some of our sponsors.

There's the shape, the grip used, and then there's the swing. Pounding with a hammer you "break" the wrist, and then snap it straight just before contact to accelerate the head even more. Fly casting it's a stiffer wrist, and the acceleration of the rod is throughout the stroke, then a sudden stop. Also, as pointed out, the thumb and forefinger contact at different points.

I have been playing around a bit with modelling clay, and squeezing some impressions into the clay with different grips. In all of them I find the fingers create a flat on either side, and the heel of the hand creates a hollow, just like the back of a fly rod grip. However, as Torin pointed out, any movement of the rod in the hand when casting immediately smushes the impressions, indicating that a hard grip conforming to that curvature and impression would not be comfortable. Hence fly grips are usually round, allowing some swivelling in the hand. I get the feeling sometimes that this cause the rod not to track straight.

This grip I have isn't quite full wells, nor is it half wells. The shape is like a full wells, but the front is a bit smaller in diameter. The grip is oversize in comparison to most prefab grips also. The overall length, however, is REALLY short compared to most grips you see. It's probably about 6 1/2" long, and just fills my hand. The "knobs" at either end, especially at the back, are adjacent to where my thumb and heel sit in their depressions. I will try flattening it a touch on the lower sides, where my fingertips and base of fingers contact the sides of the grip. This will make the lower side more V shaped than parallel flats on either side. Have a look at your hand in a similar sort of grip. I grip a fly rod like I give a thumbs up. Now elevate and turn your thumb in, like you're thumbing your nose. Look into your hand.

Fingers on top make an upside down "V". Palm basically curved. Just like the V-shaped big game grips.
On my spin rods, my skeleton seats use swelled inserts that fill the palm, yet are flattened lower on the sides a bit to meet the reel foot, basically forming that same "V"

Know what? I'm all in...... Smaller guide trains, ergonomic handles, funny unconventional fly grips....why not?

Ted,

I'd love to see pictures of handles you use, if possible. Do you carve them out of cork or EVA, or are you creating carbon grips?

The grips I have mentioned are cork grips Richard. There is a pic of of of my first ergo-skeletons on the Photo Board, using a size 16 Fuji deluxe skeleton seat in snakeskin finish. Not a great photo, but it's pretty self explanatory. Will try and put up a pic of the fly rod grip, it's floating around here somewhere.