Just so you guys know I bought three back issues of rod maker to help me understand the spiral wrap concept, I just finished a (simple wrap) 0-90-180, on a 8ft 6in moderate action downrigger rod. With the reels I use shimano tekota 600s, I have no line on blank problems with the rod loaded or unloaded, but I really like the looks of Rich Forhans revolver wrap my question is , is Rich setting up the offset on the 0 and 180 guide with the line coming of the center of the reel spool or one side or the other of the reel spool? any help would be appericiated thanks scotty.

Almost all spiral wraps start with the line dead center of the reel, that's how I start, after I get the guides on and stress test in the holder I go back and make sure that I don't have any issues about side to side play and how the line runs through the butt guide, another wrap design to look at is the acid wrap, go to @#$%& and read the description they have on their web site, I know it is for rollers but it applies to regular guides as well.

Scotty,

On Rich's offset guides, the idea is to get the line coming along at exactly 0 and 180 degrees, which it will never really do unless you offset those guides due to the ring opening itself. Don't worry too much about where the line is on the spool - that won't matter at all, just set the guides so that their inside ring edge is on the 0 and 180 degree axis. This ensures that the line is coming into and out of the first guide at exactly 0 degrees. Same with the 180 degree guide.

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Just to clarify on your other comment,the Simple Spiral is 0-180. The guide that goes back in at 90 isn't a transition guide. There is a single transition guide system 0-90-180 but in that one the 90 transitions the line. Just wanted to be clear on that in case you needed it.

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Tom is correct.
Let the line do the talking for you.
Guide alignment at 0 or 180 degrees is not really the issue.
The real issue is to start with line coming off a reel - that in the case of a bait caster runs from side to side - both during cast as well as retreive.
Also, after a bit, you want the line that starts on the top of the reel to end up on the bottom of the reel.
Also, when retreiving line, you want to end up so that the line is rewound on the line in an equal fashion. i.e. no stacking on one side or the other side of the reel.

I have found after building many spiral wraps, that I end up with a bit of an offset on the first guide. Generally, the offset is in the direction of guide rotation. i.e. if the guides spiral to the right, the first guide will be offset to the right.
If the guides spiral to the left, the first guide is offset to the left.

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I will generally use a 3 guide spiral to get the line from the top to the bottom of the rod. I set up the guides in an appropriate location and angular rotation and then spool out 10 or 20 yards of line. Then, with the line under slight tension, retreive the line. I pay close attention to how the line is running through the guides, both during cast and retreive, and also how the line is stacking on the reel. If I find that the line is hitting one of the sides of one of the guides during cast or retreive, I will rotate the guide or possibly move it up and or down the blank to achieve an equal brush on the guide. If I find that the line is stacking one side of the reel or the other, I will rotate the first guide to make the line stack equally on the reel. This generally results in about a 5 degree offset of the first guide in the direction of line spiral.

After you have built a few spiral type rods - with both right and left hand rotation and satisfied with the results - you can use these as a model to quickly hone in on the specifics of a different blank and or reel.

Spiral wraps are a great idea and work very well. Locate the guides, test cast, retreive, tweak the guide, and repeat. When satisfied, wrap the guides, finish and sell the rod or go fishing.

Take care
Roger

Roger,

Actually Rich's offset guides goes to the opposite side that the line passes by the blank. This is due to many hard running bass crankbaits to cause the line to stack heavy to one side of the reel spool if the guide is not offset so that the line cannot move and pull beyond the true 0 degree axis.

This isn't necessarily the case with all reels nor all lures, but on many bass type crankbaits it can be.

Tom,
Thanks for the update.
Roger

What Tom says about the inside edge of the edge at 0 and 180 is exactly how Rich describes it, and is offset in the opposite direction. Another way of describing it is to center that inside edge of the guide over the center of the blank - this takes whatever position the line is comng of the reel out of the picture.

But when I build a Simple Spiral - Stupid Spiral - Hillbilly Spiral - non Revolver type spiral, I build it very similar as Roger does but the 3rd guide is my first 180. I'm sure there are many ways to build a spiral that will work satisfactory.

Thanks for the info guys. I am really thankful for this site and all the help. PS. I couldnt get on for a couple of days,thats why I didnt respond sooner.

Scotty, try out acidwrap.com they have tools you can print out to help you aline the spiral eyes and all sorts of good info on the practice. Hope it helps.
James