I have a 9 1/2 ft surf rod (rated 1 - 4 oz) that I have been using for light bait fishing and for casting heavier metal lures. What I want to do is strip the rod and rebuild it as light as possible. My thought was to use LVSG guides but I wasn't sure if they would hold up to casting 3 oz +bait. Also, I thought this might be a perfect rod to try out the concept setup and if so would it be an option to go to a single foot fly guide like the LSG for the running guides given the application and the weights that will be used?

The rod is an old breakaway 1145. I really don't have any reason for doing this other than I want a fun project to work on and I want to experiment. I've only built surf rods using the old standard guide setups with standard SIC guides. So get really creative and let me know what you think would be the lightest guide setup for this rod that will handle the applications I will be using it for - light duty bottom fishing and throwing metal lures to 2 oz. The reel i am using on it is a shimano stradic 3500 and i will probably have a leader of 20lb fluro tied to 15lb fireline and so will have to pass a small shock knot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2008 04:59PM by Burton Short.

The LVSG's are fine. I wouldn't go too small since you have to pass a connection knot. Another guide which will work are the T-LDBSG size 6. These are made specifically for surf rods, but they are not imported to teh US. Another guide available in teh US which I saw at @#$%& which wil work great are the Power Ovals. TEh fact that both of these guides sit at an angle allows knots to pass through much better than a single foot which is perpendicular to teh blank. Tehy are very beefy stufy guides, unlike any other single foot available. Tehy are not the lightest SF guide, but for waht you are doing is probably somethign you might want to look into. Most people never heard of these guides, adn tehy consider teh Power Ovals as boat rod guide s- but a little thinking outside hte box goes a long way.

I would set it up with the New Guide Concept per the online article here on this site. I'd use SVSG types guides for the transition guides and fly type SG's for the choker and running guides.

This would be a light yet very durable set up. I've used it on many similar rods over the years and it's a proven winner.

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If you want it light,
Do the following:
1. Strip the rod:
2. Strip all of the finish off the rod.
3. Spin up the rod and use a buffer to buff the blank to a nice sheen.
4. If it is a spinning rod - put on about 3 guides.
1- size 40 or 50 to minimize choking for the heavier line.
1 guide about 2/3rds up about size 16
1 tip about size 10 to allow for easy knot passage

Very light and it will cast a country mile.

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If it is a bait casting rod
1. Strip the rod
2. spin up the rod and use a buffer to buff the blank to a nice sheen.
3. Use a simple spiral guide setup.
Use a size 20 for the first choker guide,
Use a size 12 for a guide at 90 degrees.
Use another size 10 at 180 about 4 feet down the rod.
Use one tip about a size 10.

Again - cast a country mile and very very light.

The rod will load well enough to catch fish, but the guides are so few that you will get virtually no line catch and the total weight of the rod will be very light.

Take care
REW

p.s.
Just another way of looking at rods. --
If you want it light and the ability to cast a long distance, minimize the total number of guides.
If you want perfect blank loading go with more guides, more weight and possible choking of the line during casting.

"4. If it is a spinning rod - put on about 3 guides.
1- size 40 or 50 to minimize choking for the heavier line.
1 guide about 2/3rds up about size 16 "

Even with 3 gudies, size 40 25 16 - there will be a significant amount of weight because of the large guides. Here are the actual weights:
BHVLG 40HH = .605oz
BHVLG 25M = .24oz
BSVLG 16 = .065oz
Total = ,910oz

Or with Alconites
40 = .52
25 = .22
16 = .08
Total = .82oz

IF he set the rod up with smaller guides, say Alconites size 25 16 8 and 6 T-LDBSG's
25 = .22
16 = .08
8 = .02
6 = .01 (6 total) = .06
Total = .38oz

Even though there are more guides, there is a SIGNIFICANT diffrent in weight. And the smaller guides set up properly will outcast the larger guides by a long way. Here are the results form an actual test casting event I put together a few years ago, using a 9' rod. You gotta read through to get teh results, but the numbers do not lie: [www.stripersonline.com]

Utilizing the New Guide Concept not only lessens the weight, as Billy notes, but it greatly improves the balance of the outfit which often trumps even overall weight in terms of how the rod feels to the fisherman.

Any time you can reduce weight, improve balance and increase casting distance, well...

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I did what Tom says above several years ago for my brother in law and it works great. He throws 2 to 3 oz. The running guides are BLG10 and they pass knots fine.

thanks the the help guys! I will definitely go with the new guide concept for this one.