Sorry to get off topic, but I know I’ve seen this discussed here before and now can’t find the info by using the search function. Actually, it’s not all that off topic as it leans towards mis-representation to the rod building industry.

It’s come to our attention that a number of competitive sites are using our photos that are either watermarked or have our name right across the front of them. That’s why we type our name across the front of our photos if you’ve ever wondered. It’s to prevent this from happening. Usually works. lol We had a rash of this several years ago, which all pointed back to one wholesaler. Those using the photos thought it was “okay” because they were given to them rather than “stealing” them directly. It was a real pain to get it cleaned up as everyone pointed the finger at someone else, rather than just fixing the problems.

Anyhow, it’s happening again on a couple of sites. They have been notified by email, one even called. The site that was phoned wanted a list of copy write violations and Colleen simply showed them one example with our name right on it, and told them that scouring their site wasn’t her job. “Look for yourself, there are more…” The photo that she pointed out was the only one that was removed. Some of these photos have been doctored in an attempt to remove our name from them, however they didn’t bother to edit out the Granite background, which kind of seems like DNA to me. You can tell they’ve done a cover up over the name, you just can’t see what that name was, unless you have the originals like we do.

This may not seem like a big deal, but I have a feeling that those doing the pirating don’t own this merchandise themselves to take their own photos. By stealing the photos off of our (or anyone else’s) site, they can simply put the stuff up for sale, then turn around and (hopefully) buy it from a wholesaler once they get an order for it. It’s not just bad for me, it’s bad for the whole industry when that takes place. You think you’re buying from a legitimate components dealer, when in fact you’re buying from a broker who stocks nothing, has no investment in the industry and can easily pick up and go with your money without having to worry about their reputation. That’s EXACTLY what happened with the last chronic photo pirate we chased around. He went “buh-by” with money from readers of this site, never delivering the goods when he vanished.

Has anyone been through this within the legal system? I’m assuming a cease & desist letter sent by certified mail is the next step? Is it up to me to surf each site and provide them with a list of violations? That doesn’t seem right to me, however I could easily see a Lawyer wanting to search them all out at $250+ per hour (while on dial-up using his slowest computer), whether they were to provide that list to those in violation, or just to have for their own info.

Any info would be appreciated. Please email me rather than eating up any more bandwidth than I already have.

Also, if you happen to see photos with our name on them that aren't on our site, I'd appreciate a heads up on it.


Thanks,

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California

Mark and Colleen you have mail.

Mark,
This is Dale Cecil and I had to deal with this type of subject on a daily basis when I worked for Wal*Mart as the Photo Center Manager. We would get people coming in trying to copy professional prints. If you reserch the copy write laws on photos is spicificly states that a photo is copy writted the minite the shutter on the camera closes. The photos do note have to be marked to be copy writted. If I were you I would take the time to look the law up and E-mail them a copy of the law. Tell the that this would be the last time you will be so reasonable about it and then it will be up to you as to how you want to presue it after that. I can tell you that Olan Mills has studios in K Mart over the violation of this law at no expense to Olan Mills.

I think they do this because they are lazy. I spent days taking photos of guides sets, reel seat, finish bottles, etc for a friend that has an online store. It takes a huge time commitment to shoot, crop, edit & resize them.

Chuck

Any artistic work (and some other types) is copyrighted the instant it is created per the Berne Convention which the U.S. recognizes. However, if you have not officially registered it with the Library of Congress Copyright Office, then obtaining damages is next to impossible. You may be able to have someone take the photos down, however.

There is a bit of a gray area when it comes to common products photographed and displayed in print or on the internet. It would cost you maybe $100 to $200 to sit down with a copyright attorney and ask his or her advice. This would be the wisest course of action and would save you money and effort in the long run. The worst thing you could do is obtain your copyright advice from say, a retired a school teacher, when a competent attorney is the person you really need to talk to.

...............

Tom is right, in that something you have not specifically copyrighted is probably going to cost you more in attorney's fees to defend than it's worth, on an economic basis.

Unfortuantely, as with patents, you have to do your own legwork to find someone who is violating your copyright. If you don't notice it or find out about it , no one else will care. And there is absolutely no care about legalities on the part of the people doing this - for example, did you really think the guy who used the artwork, took the money, and then disappeared ever intended to do any sort of actual business? As far as them being lazy, no, it's rather that they are quie industrious in their efforts to create a scam.

Post NOTHING that isn't copyrighted, whether in your printed catalog, or online. Then you have a legal leg to stand on. Then defend it obsolutely, every time, and quite frankly, with a lawyer to start with - no being nice, no asking, just a very sharp cease-and-desist first letter from your attoeny followed by a suit immediately afterwards. That's the only way to stop any of these people.

Unfortuantely, been there, done that.

Uncle Russ
Calico Creek Rods

There is another way to slow them down quite a bit. HTML coding. If you visit Mud Hole's site and try to save a photo, you will see what I mean. It won't completely and totally eliminate the possibility, but it sure gets rid of 99.9% of it. The downside is that it hurts honest builders that want to forward images/ideas to clients for inclusion in a build.

I can't stand that disabling of left click on websites. It really wreaks havoc on the way I browse. It almost completely prevents me from using mouse gestures that have become a habit. Now for me this is a convenience, but I do also know that some handicapped people have special input devices that this rouge method of copy protection messes with also.

I also disagree with the notion that it stopped 99.9% of the copying, any of these people who are stealing the photographs have their settings in the browser set so this "feature" doesn't affect their browser and they also know where the files are stored on the local HD. It might stop consumer Joe from right clicking an image and setting it as the desktop but does very little to stop the true thieves. I won't post how to get around this feature because this is a public forum, but rest assured its super easy!

Always good to check with a good lawyer but sometimes economic pressure is the best medicine for this type of thing. Just as I would never join or support a club that files false lawsuits against others in the rod building hobby, I would not buy from a company that is pirating product photos or text from another rod building supply company. It might seem ineffective when I do it alone, but if everybody did it, the numbers would force some of these people to either get right, or get out. This is the great power of the consumer when used in numbers.

People and companies usually push to the limit of whatever they can get by with. When the consumer balks and lets them know that they will not support companies that do not play fair, their tune quickly changes and they begin to conform to the rules of fair play. Or they go out of business.

Who were these pirates?

First off, thank you for all of the emails. A lot of links and info were sent that I couldn't find. Probably because I spelled copyright wrong when I did my searches! lol

Chuck, obviously you've been there to know how time consuming the whole process is and why it would make me angry. Guide sets are a bunch of fun, aren't they? Seats rolling around when you try and snap the shutter... Double sided Mylar tape is a huge help. Give that a try next time.

Jan and others wanting to know WHO?... It wasn't my intent to smoke anyone out of hiding with my post. I was sincerely (and only) looking for info to move forward. I'm not looking for monitary damages at all, I just want it to stop. In all fairness, the owners of these sites may not even have a clue that they're using our photos. Once I get them on the phone directly, knowing what I know now, I think it will be taken care of. If not, I may share. lol

Again, thank you all very much for taking the time out to help. It is DEEPLY appreciated.

Mark Griffin
[]
C&M Custom Tackle
San Dimas, California