I applied 4 coats of Diamondite CP between yesterday & today over Gudebrod Nylon thread.
The 3 spools of thread were brand new: #5896 DarkGreen, #105 Spring Green, #6779 Med. Green, & all were affected equally.
The CP went on nice, level, and looked fine.
Then I applied my first coat of Aftcote finish, it's been about an hour now, I flamed it as usual after 15 minutes,
and it is lumpy with what appears to be voids of Aftcote on the thread. It just isn't covering right.
I also applied the Aftcote over where I put the guys rod info on the blank (no CP) and it is bubble free, glass smooth, & perfect. I guess this eliminates room temp, syringes, and the Aftcote.
I have used the Diamondite CP before under the Aftcote with no problems.
This is a new bottle of DiamonditeCP & new "Flex Coat" syringes for the epoxy.
Room temp. is normal.
I won't touch it now, I'm hoping a second coat will fix it.

Anyone have a clue?

Thanks for your help.......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2008 08:19PM by Jon Gold.

Couple of things, Why 4 coats of CP and why flame? Any time I put CP of any kind on the threads, I always wait overnight before I apply finish. Min. 12 hrs. I tried the flame thing and had more problems than was needed, no more flame. If I have a choice I always use the same brand CP as finish, Flex Coat finish-Flex Coat CP.
On the lumpy part I have had that happen with the flame use, what happens is you don't get the finish heated the same all the way around, some of the finish is cold some of it hot= lumps.

I don't understand why you would "flame" the finish. It certainly doesn't require it nor do the instructions indicate that you should do this. When you say you "flamed" it, exactly what are we talking about - a gentle few second heat to release bubbles or a viscious heating/torching of the finish?

My guess is that you overheated it and caused the finish to liquify to the point where it ran like water, getting heavy on one side and then spreading that uneveness all around the wraps.

The CP certainly didn't have anything to do with it.

....................

I agree with Tim and Tom. I would never flame the finish, will create humps as Tom described. If I got bubbles I blow them out with a soda straw.

When I flame I do a few passes of an alcohol lamp under the rod, nothing severe....just a little gentle heat to release any trapped bubbles that might be left.
The finish hasn't run to one side, it looks like random large "ragged holes" of no finish areas/thinner finish areas (maybe not quite this bad), like it was contaminated with dabs of silicone or something else and
it just ran away from these holes.

I have always used the Flex Coat CP with the Aftcote but I'd thought I'd switch CP's a couple of rods back and I haven't had an issue until now.
The only reason I'm bringing up the CP is that it is the only thing I changed. I've probably used the Aftcote for the past 50 rods or so.
Does Aftcoat even make a CP for their epoxy?

Sometimes I wait over night between the CP and the epoxy, sometimes I don't. It has never been an issue for me.

Any other suggestions, Tom or Tim???
I appreciate your help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2008 09:02PM by Jon Gold.

Jon,

I use Aftcote as well, and rarely EVER do I need heat. Aftcote is a VERY slow drying finish, as I'm sure you know. I never pass heat UNDER the wraps either, always along side the wrap as the rod is turning, nothing more.

If it were me, I'd let it sit, tack up pretty well and then I'd take a clean brush and "wipe off" most of the finish that is on the thread and hopefully this will be at a time when the finish is rather tacky and you can fill in these "bad" areas as you go because the finish will be tacky enough to not run away from the problem areas. Basically now you'll have one VERY thin coat over the thread that wont seperate.

Then I'd recoat tomorrow, thinly, and maybe another coat if it's needed the next day. One more thing, I've seen the fuel from a cig lighter "spew" as you start the lighter up and get on the thread and cause problmes like this too....jsut something to watch for: always start the lighter AWAY from your work.

DR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2008 09:40PM by Duane Richards (DR).

Like Tom says and I agree the CP has nothing to do with the finish. Sometimes you'll get a cloudy look if you don't wait long enough for the CP to dry. I have mixed different CP's with different finishes just to see what happens and if left to dry a least 12 hours I have never had a bad finish because of the CP.
I have done the flame thing the same as you describe and everything looks good you walk away and come back and the finish is a nightmare.
Let the finish cure 24 -36 hours, then try a second coat, light, just enough to fill the lumpy area's DON'T FLAME. If that doesn't work then let the second coat cure 24 -36 hours sand with a flat block, apply a very light third coat that should take care of your problem. Hope this helps.

Without seeing it in person it's hard to say. Torching isn't good, but a little gentle heat most likely did not cause your problem as described.

I doubt the CP is the problem either, although if it looks like the finish was being repelled in certain areas, then it is entirely possible that something did indeed get on the surface that caused this trouble. Silicone usually appears as hundreds of fish eyes or craters. I have seen things like cologne and perfume worn in the same room as a rod cause oddball things like what you describe.


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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/19/2008 11:26PM by Tom Kirkman.

I would simply suggest picking a CP and finish from a single manufacturer AND sticking with it. I see so many posts related to finish and 99% of them come down to changing products, procedures, etc. Almost without exception, all the products on the market will get the job done IF you follow a few basic rules.

Not for nothingm, I flame my finish with a Propane torch, 100% of the time. While Aftcote does release bubbles very well, you'd be misinformed if you think it is as clear as possible if you didn't flame it. All you would to do to see is pour it out on waxed paper unflamed adn flamed, and when it dries peel it off and look through it. Playing around during NERB's demo's, I'll purposely put the blue flame of the Propane torch right on teh finish for several seconds, until teh finish is so thin it drips off teh rod. I've even done this with LS Supreme which is said to be allergic to flames. Point is I did everythign I could to overheat teh finishes, and never has it created more bubbles.

I will apply a LITTLE heat also to release any bubbles, but I use a heat stripping gun from about 2 feet away. If you attempt to re liquify finish with heat after it has begun to gel, you will create a load of problems. It seems that the epoxy will begin to run off of spots and cling to others making the worst finish imaginable.

I have found the best policy is too keep the bubbles out in the first place.

Are you 100% certain that the cp was completely dry before you put on the epoxy? Water can really mess things up too.

I have had finish become completely saturated with gazillions of micro bubbles with too much heat for too long. If I use it, I only use it for a few seconds, keeping it moving

Mike (Southgate, MI)
If I don't want to, I don't have to and nobody can make me (except my wife) cuz I'm RETIRED!!